Using Shredded Paper for Coop Litter - As Good As Wood Chips?

[avjudge]

I just don't understand why vermiculite insulation in those large bags 3 cubic foot bags for ~$20.00 is no longer sold at our local stores?

I do know that if you have vermiculite insulation in your attic (we do), instructions are to assume it has asbestos in it as the mine in Montana that was the main source had both minerals present. A clean test of a sample from your attic doesn’t guarantee that another sample won’t be contaminated, so all the insulation has to be considered hazardous waste if removed, or encapsulated if retained.

(The above is what I read when looking into our options, and as a result we’re letting sleeping dogs lie for now and living with woefully inadequate attic insulation in our old house.)

I don’t know if there is another, safe source that was packed in the larger bags and lack of demand has led to its discontinuation, or if the larger bags had the asbestos problem.

 

[gtaus]

I do know that if you have vermiculite insulation in your attic (we do), instructions are to assume it has asbestos in it as the mine in Montana that was the main source had both minerals present. A clean test of a sample from your attic doesn’t guarantee that another sample won’t be contaminated, so all the insulation has to be considered hazardous waste if removed, or encapsulated if retained.

Yes, I have read that back in the day vermiculite insulation may have contained asbestos.

I don’t know if there is another, safe source that was packed in the larger bags and lack of demand has led to its discontinuation, or if the larger bags had the asbestos problem.

The 3 cubic foot vermiculite insulation bags that I bought a few years ago at Menards were "Asbestos Free" right on the bag. That's why I don't understand why we cannot buy it anymore.

FWIW, the same company used to bag up the vermiculite insulation 3 cubic foot bags and the much smaller 8 quart "garden" vermiculite bags for potting soil mix. They had the same contents. That's why I saved a lot of money just buying the larger 3 cubic foot bags for my potting soil mix. In any case, I always wore a face mask when using vermiculite because those particles can get into your lungs and cause problems - even if asbestos free.

Anyway, from this discussion, I learned that paper shreds can be used in moderation (10-20%) in a potting mix. That was good to learn.

 

[avjudge]

The 3 cubic foot vermiculite insulation bags that I bought a few years ago at Menards were "Asbestos Free" right on the bag. That's why I don't understand why we cannot buy it anymore.

FWIW, the same company used to bag up the vermiculite insulation 3 cubic foot bags and the much smaller 8 quart "garden" vermiculite bags for potting soil mix. . .

Well that answers my question! I figured it had to have been many years since asbestos was a problem (I know the mine was closed down for that reason, and many health-related lawsuits in the area ensued) but I don’t really have a sense of time. At this point in my life (and I’m not even seriously old yet, just approaching there) it’s generally safe to figure things I remember happened longer ago than I think.

Sounds like the bag size was a business decision – they figured out how to get more money out of us! Figures.

And agreed, good to know about mixing in paper.

 

[gtaus]

Well that answers my question!

Not to beat a dead horse, but I asked ChapGPT AI why vermiculite insulation in the large 3 cubic bags is no longer sold in the stores. Here is the response I received.

************

Vermiculite insulation, once commonly available in large 3-cubic-foot bags, has become harder to find for several reasons:

### 1. **Health Concerns Related to Asbestos**
One of the primary reasons for the decline in the availability of vermiculite insulation is the association with asbestos contamination in older vermiculite products. For many years, vermiculite was mined from a site in Libby, Montana, which was contaminated with asbestos, a dangerous material that can cause serious health problems such as lung cancer, mesothelioma, and asbestosis when inhaled.

Although vermiculite itself is not hazardous, the contamination with asbestos has made consumers and companies wary of using and selling it, even though modern vermiculite is generally considered safe. However, this historical link has led to a reduction in demand and caution in the market.

### 2. **Shift to Alternative Materials**
Due to concerns about asbestos and a desire for safer alternatives, many consumers and businesses have shifted toward other insulation materials. Products like fiberglass, cellulose, and spray foam insulation are now more widely available and popular. These alternatives offer better insulation performance and don't carry the same health risks historically associated with vermiculite.

### 3. **Limited Demand for Large Bags**
Large 3-cubic-foot bags of vermiculite were once popular for both insulation and gardening, but with the decline in use for insulation, the market for such large quantities has shrunk. Vermiculite is still used in gardening and horticulture (to aerate soil and retain moisture), but it's typically sold in smaller bags for these purposes, as gardeners don’t usually need large quantities.

### 4. **Market Availability and Supply Issues**
There may also be issues related to supply chain disruptions or availability from manufacturers. Vermiculite, being a mined material, could be subject to fluctuating production levels or regional shortages, especially if demand for it is lower.

### 5. **Regulations and Safety Standards**
In some areas, the sale of vermiculite insulation may be subject to more stringent regulations due to the potential asbestos risk. This could affect its availability in certain regions or stores.

### Alternatives
If you're looking for vermiculite specifically for gardening, you can still find smaller bags in home improvement or garden centers. If you're looking for an insulation solution, modern alternatives such as cellulose, fiberglass, or spray foam are safer and more widely available.

******************

Well that explains things better to me. However, I especially took note of "If you're looking for vermiculite specifically for gardening, you can still find smaller bags in home improvement or garden centers."

That's true, you can buy the small bags, but at 4X the cost!

I still have a partial bag of vermiculite insulation for mixing into potting soil. I think I will start mixing in some shredded paper or shredded cardboard (10-20%) to make the vermiculite last longer. I don't plan on buying those small "garden" 8 quart bags of vermiculite due to the high cost.

I have all the chicken run compost in the world for my outside gardens. However, that compost is full of life (bugs, worms, etc...) and has proven not to be good inside the house when the bugs hatched. That soil life is what makes it so good in the raised beds. But I don't know if I sterilize the compost (hot water or baking) for indoor pots if that would just ruin all the benefits of my compost. Unless someone knows better, I think I need a sterile medium for my indoor pots and have to feed fertilizer for the plants.

 

[Logar]

This thread just encouraged me to buy a $62, 12 sheet shredder and I am happy about that lol. I have had a weird obsession with shredding paper since I can remember and now that I impulse bought (well technically they were from USPS so they were free) 250 boxes a couple months ago to build a box fort and have nothing to use them for can finally have a purpose. I don't think anyone has been as excited as me about buying a paper shredder before. It is supposed to come Sunday but I am hoping it comes tomorrow as I know amazon stuff arrives early a lot of the time. And I know I could have waited for something to come up on craigslist or marketplace but I am very impatient and impulsive

 

[gtaus]

This thread just encouraged me to buy a $62, 12 sheet shredder and I am happy about that lol.

That sure sounds like a good deal for a brand new 12 sheet shredder. You should have no problems shredding that cardboard in your shredder. I would just suggest that you cut the cardboard into 2-3 inch strips and feed it down the center where most shredders indicated their "credit card" shredding zone. If you do that, the shredder will last a lot longer. Well, at least my cheap used paper shredders work a lot better if I cut the cardboard into strips.

Of course, you can use a heavy-duty manual scissors, or a razor utility knife to cut the cardboard and those you might already have them or can get them for little money. I did that for awhile.

However, as I have stated, I'm getting older now and my hands are not as strong as they used to be. I invested in a power cutter to cut up the cardboard and that has saved my old hands from cramping up. If you have similar challenges, those power cutters are available from many companies. I got my power cutters from Harbor Frieght, on sale, for about $25.00 a few years ago. Here is a screenshot of the HF power cutters but at full retail...

WalMart has a similar power cutter for even less...

All those power cutters are basically the same. I think even the blades are standardized if you should ever need to get a new blade.

At any rate, once I got the power cutters, I now shred almost all of our packing and shipping boxes that we get from Amazon or QVC. In the past, it was just easier for me to dump the cardboard into the recycle bin because, like I said, it was too hard on my old hands to cut the cardboard with my scissors. But now I can recycle all that cardboard at home, making coop litter first and then turning it into compost later. For me, that's a big step forward in reusing valuable material that otherwise would end up in a landfill somewhere. Plus, I never have to buy any coop litter.

BONUS TIP: I use any and all paper products as shredded material for my coop litter. However, in the nest boxes, I don't use shredded paper because the strands will stick to freshly laid eggs. What I do is empty my shredder and then process a bunch of cardboard. I use the shredded cardboard in the nest boxes and the cardboard very rarely sticks to an egg. It's really great to use the cardboard shreds in the nest boxes and that is what I would recommend. In fact, I usually save a bag or two just for nest box litter.

 

[Logar]

That sure sounds like a good deal for a brand new 12 sheet shredder. You should have no problems shredding that cardboard in your shredder. I would just suggest that you cut the cardboard into 2-3 inch strips and feed it down the center where most shredders indicated their "credit card" shredding zone. If you do that, the shredder will last a lot longer. Well, at least my cheap used paper shredders work a lot better if I cut the cardboard into strips.

Of course, you can use a heavy-duty manual scissors, or a razor utility knife to cut the cardboard and those you might already have them or can get them for little money. I did that for awhile.

However, as I have stated, I'm getting older now and my hands are not as strong as they used to be. I invested in a power cutter to cut up the cardboard and that has saved my old hands from cramping up. If you have similar challenges, those power cutters are available from many companies. I got my power cutters from Harbor Frieght, on sale, for about $25.00 a few years ago. Here is a screenshot of the HF power cutters but at full retail...


View attachment 3958093

WalMart has a similar power cutter for even less...

View attachment 3958094

All those power cutters are basically the same. I think even the blades are standardized if you should ever need to get a new blade.

At any rate, once I got the power cutters, I now shred almost all of our packing and shipping boxes that we get from Amazon or QVC. In the past, it was just easier for me to dump the cardboard into the recycle bin because, like I said, it was too hard on my old hands to cut the cardboard with my scissors. But now I can recycle all that cardboard at home, making coop litter first and then turning it into compost later. For me, that's a big step forward in reusing valuable material that otherwise would end up in a landfill somewhere. Plus, I never have to buy any coop litter.

BONUS TIP: I use any and all paper products as shredded material for my coop litter. However, in the nest boxes, I don't use shredded paper because the strands will stick to freshly laid eggs. What I do is empty my shredder and then process a bunch of cardboard. I use the shredded cardboard in the nest boxes and the cardboard very rarely sticks to an egg. It's really great to use the cardboard shreds in the nest boxes and that is what I would recommend. In fact, I usually save a bag or two just for nest box litter.

Thank you! I am very excited to try it out for my coop bedding. I have been getting bunch of cardboard ready for the last hour and a half. Plan on getting a bunch more as well. I am just using a knife and cutting it into 1-3 inch strips

 

[gtaus]

Thank you! I am very excited to try it out for my coop bedding. I have been getting bunch of cardboard ready for the last hour and a half. Plan on getting a bunch more as well. I am just using a knife and cutting it into 1-3 inch strips View attachment 3958122

That's the way to do it! Looks like you are all set to start shredding when your unit arrives. Nothing wrong with using the trusty old razor utility knife to cut that stuff.

I only mentioned the power cutters because I know some people are cautious about using the razor knifes because if you slip up, you might accidentally cut yourself. I don't know how it would be possible to cut yourself with the power cutters. But who needs to spend more money on stuff that you don't need?

FWIW, I have been using paper shreds as my coop litter for the past ~3 years. I do the deep bedding method, starting off with maybe 3-4 inches of shreds in the fall and adding fresh shreds once or twice a month, as needed, throughout the winter. In the springtime, I have maybe 8-10 inches of paper shreds built up in the coop. All that gets gathered up and tossed into my chicken run for composting in place. The paper shreds turn into usable compost in a couple of months once outside and exposed to rain. Of course, I add grass clippings and leaves throughout the summer and fall as well. It all gets mixed together, with the chicken poo, and makes a high-quality compost for my raised garden beds.

In any case, I would love to hear how using paper shreds works out for you. Keep us posted with your thoughts and findings. Thanks.

 

[Logar]

May have gone a bit over board.

 

[gtaus]

May have gone a bit over board. View attachment 3958575

That's probably as much cardboard as I shred in an entire year! That is truly amazing!

One of the nice benefits to using shredded paper and cardboard is that you can shred it now, bag it up, and use it when you need it. It won't go "bad" on you or start to decompose or smell as long as you keep it dry.

In case you don't know, when you shred all that cardboard, it will take maybe 2X-3X more volume space. Normally, for me, that's a good thing for my coop litter. After you get your paper shredder and use it for a while, you will get a feel for how much more bulk you make when you shred paper and cardboard. I can hardly imagine how much shredded cardboard that pile would look like 2X-3X bigger then it is now!

Bonus Idea: Lots of people use shredded cardboard for worm bedding. Evidently, the worms love to eat the cardboard glue and cardboard shreds make an excellent medium to grow worms. If you are into using vermicompost or worms for fishing, that might be another option to use up some of that cardboard.

Having said that one winter I tried to have a worm bed in our second bathroom. I live in northern Minnesota, so I could not leave the worm bin out in the unheated garage. My inexperience doomed the project. I overfed the worms, the bin went rancid, and the worms either ran away or died in the mess I had created. It really, really, smelled bad and I had to dump everything outside. I don't know if there was a single live worm in that mess at the end.

Dear Wife freaked out when she saw worms crawling out of the bathroom! I don't blame her. I really messed up. Someday I would like to try again with a worm bin. I think I have learned what not to do and would be more successful a second time around.

For now, I'm content with all the black gold chicken run compost I make, outside, with the chickens doing almost all the work. All my shredded paper and cardboard coop litter gets dumped out into the chicken run for composting after I use it in the coop. There are lots of bugs and worms in that chicken run litter. Free food for the chickens when they dig down a few inches. In a way, I guess I do have a worm bed. It's just spread all out over the chicken run!

Anyways, I hope you post some pictures of your new shredder and how you are using the shredded paper and cardboard at your home. You might provide some inspiration to someone else to try it. Thanks.

Edit: I am curious to find out what kind of shredder you bought. I have a crosscut shredder, but I know there are micro cut shredders as well. Both types of shredders have their advantages. I am wondering if a micro cut shredder would reduce the volume of the shredder paper in comparison to a cross cut shredder?