Vaccinating for Marek's

[microchick]

Yep, I'm very familiar with the potency of the herpes virus. I am a retired nurse and it was my husband, a retired eye doctor who diagnosed the herpes infection in my bird's eyes. Herpes is herpes, whether it is in a chicken's or a human's eyes and trust me after 35 years in practice he has seen and treated his share of herpatic Uveitis infections.

Anybody who has ever suffered from a cold sore has the herpes virus.

I have also had Lyme disease and if you are familar with that you know that the bacteria that causes Lyme, Borrelia burgdorferi, can, upon sensing the presence of antibiotics in its victim's system go into dormancy, encapsulating the bacteria in a protective shell and attaching itself to nerves and burrowing into organs in order to hide from the antibiotics. It is a cyclic infection and can erupt every 30 days, which is why Lyme specialists recommend treatment longer than the recommended 10 day round of antibiotics. You have to take the antibiotics continuously in order to catch all the eruptions of the bacteria from it's dormant state.

Very much like herpes, it hides in the victim. Recently I read an article about tests done on a mummified 'ancient human' in which acheologists discovered that the specimen was carrying a genetic marker on it's DNA for Lyme disease.

But I digress. Appologies to the OP. I commend your struggles to overcome this devestating disease. Please realize that you are not alone in your battle.

@duluthralphie, it's been the same for me. I have lost my best roosters to Marek's. My husband jokes every time that I point out a bird that I really like, has a good personalilty, beautiful appearance, etc, that 'well, that's it for that chicken'. So yes, Marek's really hates me also and karma loves to sit on my head every chance it gets.

As for butchering. What I worry about is most of the meat processors around us are Amish and I worry about spreading the disease to their flocks.

 

[Folly's place]

I've been lucky, and careful, and so far haven't had a Marek's disease problem here.
No near neighbors have chickens, a blessing for my flock.
I'm paranoid about biosecurity.
New chicks from hatcheries arrive vaccinated for Marek's disease, and are banded to ID them that way.
Chicks hatched here are not vaccinated, and are my 'canaries in the coal mine'.
I do necropsies on every bird who dies here of an illness, or unexpectedly. If necessary, with tissues to the state lab.
I don't take birds to shows, or get birds from elsewhere. Once a bird leaves, it doesn't return. Any visitors wear clean clothes and shoes.
Yes, I've been lucky. I can only hope this good fortune continues!
Mary

 

[duluthralphie]

I've been lucky, and careful, and so far haven't had a Marek's disease problem here.
No near neighbors have chickens, a blessing for my flock.
I'm paranoid about biosecurity.
New chicks from hatcheries arrive vaccinated for Marek's disease, and are banded to ID them that way.
Chicks hatched here are not vaccinated, and are my 'canaries in the coal mine'.
I do necropsies on every bird who dies here of an illness, or unexpectedly. If necessary, with tissues to the state lab.
I don't take birds to shows, or get birds from elsewhere. Once a bird leaves, it doesn't return. Any visitors wear clean clothes and shoes.
Yes, I've been lucky. I can only hope this good fortune continues!
Mary

I have disposable plastic boots/shoe covers I make people wear if I show them the birds. There is a strict "no touching anything" That includes something that falls on the floor. They are cheap and work well. They are not allowed to even touch the cages or pens.

 

[GardenTillers44]

Great conversation. The turkey myth is alive and well around here and is perpetuated by most of the chicken wranglers I talk to. I never heard otherwise, and so believed it. We were rolling right along and enjoying our modest layer flock for a couple years before the Marek's struck last July. We had just started raising Welsummers, Marans and Ameraucanas. We lost 4 pullets all 20-24 weeks old. They showed classic paralysis and flopping around. It was heartbreaking to see them suffer so. Three were necropsied by the state lab near us and confirmed Marek's as C.O.D.
We adopted more stringent biosecurity in the way we clean and maintain the premises and added disinfectant trays with muck boots used only in the chicken yard. So far, things have calmed down and the flock has had no further incidents since last August, but as I said before, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the Marek's and plan to stay vigilant.

We are now just trying to maintain a small flock of 15-20 layers and give them as good a life as we can, so with chicks hatching in a few days, we ordered the vaccine last night. It arrived ice cold this morning packed in styro and cold packs. Our rearing room is ready and we are awaiting the hatch.

When all is said and done, Marek's is a destroyer of dreams, plans and flocks.

It certainly altered our plans. We lost the key dark egg layers we wanted to use to develop our own Olive Eggers. We now are just trying to maintain a flock to keep us and our family in eggs and help with the gardens, and in the end I guess that's enough. Maybe we'll revisit the breeding effort in the future.

 

[GardenTillers44]

One other thought, myth or not, is I have seen other posts, vets and articles stating that stress among the flock can be a trigger for Marek's, and that a Marek's infected bird is more susceptible to other disease and parasites. This seems common sense to me in all walks and forms of life. So we took our time to learn more about chicken biology and psychology, and enlarged and restructured our facilities and practices to provide the least amount of stress on the birds as possible. We have not had another outbreak since, and that could be a contributing factor. Doesn't mean we're home free by any means, but we and the flock are in a better place.

 

[duluthralphie]

One other thought, myth or not, is I have seen other posts, vets and articles stating that stress among the flock can be a trigger for Marek's, and that a Marek's infected bird is more susceptible to other disease and parasites. This seems common sense to me in all walks and forms of life. So we took our time to learn more about chicken biology and psychology, and enlarged and restructured our facilities and practices to provide the least amount of stress on the birds as possible. We have not had another outbreak since, and that could be a contributing factor. Doesn't mean we're home free by any means, but we and the flock are in a better place.

Stress could play a role, but chicken life is never stress free.

If you are a hen you have to worry about constant sexual assault from the roosters all day long.

If you are a low ranked bird you need to worry about assault from a higher ranked bird for some misdeed or for whatever reason or no reason.

If you are a higher ranked bird you need to worry some young upstart will knock you off your throne.

Roosters have to worry their hens will be attacked by a predator when ever they are roaming and foraging. They have to grab little bites themselves while appearing to never stop being on a constant vigil.

Then they need to fight for the best nest. Hope the humans like them and they do not fall prey to the axe.

I am sure no matter what the reason is though a weakened bird is more susceptible to the disease.

 

[duluthralphie]

I have a related thread I just started about vaccinating. Doing it before the chick hatches like the big hatcheries do.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/in-ovo-vaccination.1237754/#post-19866672

I have never done it but am going to try it.

 

[GardenTillers44]

chicken life is never stress free.

Yeah, I never thought we could do much about the types of stress you are referring to. I suppose every living thing has those types of stress in their lives. But we can help with those things we can control like providing enough space and safe havens, comfortable roosting and nesting sites, diversions, food options and TLC to make a difference. I'll check out your new thread, thanks!

 

[wleigh1021]

I know this is an old thread, but @duluthralphie if you could please let me know how your outbreaks were after vaccinating your chicks hatched at home? Did you see a significant reduction in sick birds? It seems silly to me that people say to have them raised elsewhere for 3 weeks. If mareks is really everywhere then I would trust raising them in my house knowing I have showered, put on clean clothes, and am keeping them in a clean/segregated environment as much as possible before I trust a stranger or hatchery.

 

[duluthralphie]

I know this is an old thread, but @duluthralphie if you could please let me know how your outbreaks were after vaccinating your chicks hatched at home? Did you see a significant reduction in sick birds? It seems silly to me that people say to have them raised elsewhere for 3 weeks. If mareks is really everywhere then I would trust raising them in my house knowing I have showered, put on clean clothes, and am keeping them in a clean/segregated environment as much as possible before I trust a stranger or hatchery.

I have not had one incident of Mareks since I started vaccinating.

I don’t recall if I mentioned it or not... and I am too lazy to read the entire thread again.

I now buy my vaccine and store it in the fridge in dark packing. I open the dry vial and take out what I need and mix it with the liquid in a third vial.

I started doing this very shortly after I started vaccinating. A guy I met at a bird show told me he did this to cut down on the cost/waste of doing just a couple chicks.

I keep the liquid in the fridge also in darkened box.

I use a sterile needle to pull the liquid out with and a sterilized fancy little scissors that my wife uses for some kind of needle work..and yes she screamed at me when I first dumped her fancy little scissors into a pan of boiling water... she has since bought me my own.

I use the scissors to cut the disc and pull a small amount out.

I have no idea if this next part is true...a local vet told me the precise dosage is fairly flexible. All that matters is some live vaccine gets inside the chick..

I have also raised chicks for a month or more in the house away from the herpes virus (being as clean as a slob like me can when handling and feeding them) and vaccinated them at 3-6 weeks old. Then keeping them inside for another 10 days.

It seems to have worked.

I use insulin needles on the chicks. My wife is a nurse and had access to the needles... she says to never tell anyone.. so shhhhhh!!

I have read the studies and opinions on Maraks and how the birds might shed their entire life. I have no idea if my birds have light Maraks Infections or not.

All I know, is if I hatch 20 chicks most will live to a year, I have no more birds limping and kicking around unable to walk or feed. It is such a relief.

Because of a work accident 30 years ago my lungs are compromised. I will no longer be hatching birds and may be forced to liquidate all my birds.

So I am dropping my NPIP status and have sold off most my incubators..I only have 6 left.

I have not started any nor do I have any plan to this year. I will let a broody hatch the chicks. I will try to vaccinate as soon as they hatch but I know this could be a losing battle. If I start seeing Maraks at 2-4 months of age I will stop allowing broodies to set.


I am hoping to still have a dozen birds running around my lawn, even with my lung problems, I find them relaxing. And I can fool myself into thinking they love me when they actually just think of me as a walking candy dispenser.


Lots more than you wanted to hear... but therapeutic to me as a prepare for Friday’s visit to the pulmonologist.