Vaccinations?

[DougD]

cgmccary stated:

Vaccinations?You would NOT have to have had your chicks vaccinated if your prior birds had been vaccinated. The vaccinated birds are not carriers of Marek's necessairly; any chicken can carry it. The vaccination is made from the live virus {actually, it is the Turkey Herpes Virus-- NOT harmful to chickens or humans} that infects turkeys anyway.

So, Vaccinated birds will not give Marek's to unvaccinated birds. What you must be careful about is IF you have your chicks vaccinated for Marek's then you need to keep them isolated from all other birds, vaccinated or not, for 3-4 weeks to give the vaccine a chance to build immunity. Vaccinated chicks MUST be protected from unvaccinated adults for 3-4 weeks.

Wouldn't this apply to all chicks, vaccinated or not since any adults may be carriers?​

 

[cgmccary]

DougD asked:

Wouldn't this apply to all chicks, vaccinated or not since any adults may be carriers?
​

Yes. However, Marek's is everywhere in the environment and not just transmitted by a "carrier bird," so to speak-- in other words, no adult bird is necessary to transmit the virus to your chicks. It is not practical to keep your chicks indoors & isolated until they are 6-7 months old. We are to assume all chickens have been exposed as Marek's is transmitted airbourne and is on feathers, dander, dust, etc. One cannot be sure that when you go out to tend your adult birds & you come back in, that you are not bringing Marek's back in on your clothes, shoes, etc. so that would render the vaccine ineffective . . . perhaps.

The reason you want to keep "VACCINATED" chicks INDOORS for their first 3-4 weeks and away from ALL chickens is so that we give the vaccine the best chance & time to work and prevent them from catching it from the other chickens or their environment.

The VACCINATED chicks are NO DANGER to ANY UNVACCINATED BIRD. One can hope that you don't bring it to the chicks. Personally, I change my clothes in another room and disinfect my hands if I have been outside during the time I have chicks. I take care of the chicks first before going outside. All this is no guarantee. You just do what you can do.

Chris​

 

[MenyaBolsheNet]

I don't understand... Why would a vaccinated chicken give the illness they are vaccinated for to non-vaccinated chicken? If I understand correctly, that is what you are talking about..? If so, what would be the point of ever vaccination any chickens in the first place???



I am so confused.

 

[1zooman12]

Hello menyaBolsheNet, (Where did you ever get that moniker!?)
Don't let the anti-vaccination crowd get to you. If vaccinations weren't effective there simply wouldn't be any. I'm big on vaccinations for Merek's Disease and for Fowl Pox. Many hatcheries vaccinate for Merek's as a matter of course so ask before you buy. And here at home I vaccinate everything sporting feathers for Fowl Pox. I also vaccinate all home produced chicks for both diseases. Growth rate is improved and as layers they don't go into an egg laying slump. Yes, I have a bias for some vaccination and other technologies probably from having been a zoo curator and a vet tech in my ancient past. However, while we are at it, I'm not a fan of added antibiotics or hormones in an animal's dietary regimen. I would give antibiotics if and when a creature is ill and diagnosable. Why create a local population of super bugs by giving antibiotics to every thing that moves? When dosing a sick animal with antibiotics an overwhelming dose is given so as to kill ALL the bugs. Whereas the dose of antibiotics in feeds is relatively low - a dangerous situation being created. To those who are not familiar with the process, here's how to goes. It's a very simple to understand concept. When antibiotics are given ad nauseum to a group of any species, routinely in their feed, almost all the target bugs get nailed. One is left with a very small population of super resilient bacteria or whatever. Yes, there are other disease agents besides viruses (viruses are immune to ALL antibiotics, by the way). (Just for kicks rev up rickettsia in your favorite search engine.) Now guess who multiply like mad laying waste to your precious animals who largely can't be saved because the antibiotics no longer are very effective against the enemy bugs? Contrary to popular belief the antibiotics don't cause nor create the super bugs. They already exist by virtue of the fact that every population of living things consist of an array of strong and weak individuals. And so it is for enemy disease agents. So why give the super bugs exclusive dominion over your precious animals? (The question is rhetorical.) I warned you that this is a simple concept.
I got a big kick out of your well placed question. Way to go!
Sincerely,
Neal, the Zooman

 

[MenyaBolsheNet]

Oh, wow, thank you for all the information! That clears things up for me.

I already know about all the issuses with giving antibiotics when they aren't needed, but how do you know which food has antibiotics in it? Is that what it means when it says medicated on the bag?

Umm, what is a moniker?

 

[Tippylou]

Hello menyaBolsheNet, (Where did you ever get that moniker!?)
Don't let the anti-vaccination crowd get to you. If vaccinations weren't effective there simply wouldn't be any. I'm big on vaccinations for Merek's Disease and for Fowl Pox. Many hatcheries vaccinate for Merek's as a matter of course so ask before you buy. And here at home I vaccinate everything sporting feathers for Fowl Pox. I also vaccinate all home produced chicks for both diseases. Growth rate is improved and as layers they don't go into an egg laying slump. Yes, I have a bias for some vaccination and other technologies probably from having been a zoo curator and a vet tech in my ancient past. However, while we are at it, I'm not a fan of added antibiotics or hormones in an animal's dietary regimen. I would give antibiotics if and when a creature is ill and diagnosable. Why create a local population of super bugs by giving antibiotics to every thing that moves? When dosing a sick animal with antibiotics an overwhelming dose is given so as to kill ALL the bugs. Whereas the dose of antibiotics in feeds is relatively low - a dangerous situation being created. To those who are not familiar with the process, here's how to goes. It's a very simple to understand concept. When antibiotics are given ad nauseum to a group of any species, routinely in their feed, almost all the target bugs get nailed. One is left with a very small population of super resilient bacteria or whatever. Yes, there are other disease agents besides viruses (viruses are immune to ALL antibiotics, by the way). (Just for kicks rev up rickettsia in your favorite search engine.) Now guess who multiply like mad laying waste to your precious animals who largely can't be saved because the antibiotics no longer are very effective against the enemy bugs? Contrary to popular belief the antibiotics don't cause nor create the super bugs. They already exist by virtue of the fact that every population of living things consist of an array of strong and weak individuals. And so it is for enemy disease agents. So why give the super bugs exclusive dominion over your precious animals? (The question is rhetorical.) I warned you that this is a simple concept.
I got a big kick out of your well placed question. Way to go!
Sincerely,
Neal, the Zooman

Thank you, thank you!!!! Very wise words

 

[crazyhen]

This is my first post, so I wonder if this will even work?
So I too have a vaccination question:
I am getting my first ever flock from my pet chicken.com and they ONLY vaccinate for Maerks. Someone told me to tell the hatchery that I don't want to vaccinate them and instead give them medicine in their food . What should I do? Opt for no vaccines and give them a vaccine in their food? Or should I let the hatchery vaccinate for Maerks and do nothing else and hope for the best? I hate not knowing, they will be here in two weeks and I don't want to do the wrong thing!!!

Unless you have had trouble with Merricks where you are I would not worry about the vaccine. I would use the medicated feed for the chicks or corid.. If you have used the vaccine all your chicks should have it from this time on. Because any new ones would be exposed to the virus. they use a live type of medicine.I do not use it. The only thing I use here is the medicated feed. My only problem was brought in with an older pullet who had ms/mg. That was devestating.

 

[1zooman12]

Hello MenyaBolshenet,
Your opinion that medicated on an animal food product is spot on as our British cousins are given to saying. These hucksters don't even credit us wee folk for having enough brains to be able to discern the meaning of having a specific antibiotic incorporated in a food. It's probably just as well since no matter what they put in by way of an antibiotic we are wise to absolutely eschew it! As for moniker its original meaning was nickname but it has recently become a synonym for name. Words like that gain favor by enriching a language so that key words and their meanings do not become trite by constant use. That is in fact the definition for that word, i.e., that which is over used. Funny thing is that trite itself has a family of synonyms: commonplace, hackneyed, platitudinous, truistic and overworked just to name a few. Languages rarely remain still; they grow and not always for the better. Enough of that, we are about chickens.

As for your assertion, dear Crazyhen that giving a modified live virus to a flock endangers future immigrants to that flock is way off base. Do you have a legitimate medical citation to bolster that idea? The attenuated virus is just that and incapable of transmitting the disease for which it was developed. Pure assumptive poppycock. Why? Because the modified live virus is killed by the recipient animal (bird) which retains a memory of it lest it should enter the bird from another source as a live virulent organism. Where that belief system arose only heaven knows. Such vaccines are so weakened that they do NOT reproduce much less get transmitted to non vaccinated arrivals. That is the beauty of the system. If new emigres become ill from the disease for which your flock was vaccinated you can bet that they either brought it with them or it was introduced from another outside vector. Mosquitos are the main vector of fowl pox, for example. It is a good idea to vaccinate all your birds, including the recent arrivals, for protection against fowl pox. And NO, fowl pox is NOT the same as chicken pox, another wild untrue assertion. While generally not fatal, except in the weakest of specimens, fowl pox has the distinction of inhibiting ovulation in the chicken for often as long as two months while the bird heals. Yep, in my not so humble opinion, vaccination for fowl pox is a good thing. Who wants to pour all sorts of finances into feeds for a flock of birds whose production is seriously sub par? In practice that is not much different than having one's taxes increased. Not me folks, not me… And excuse my ignorance but being relatively new to these forums, what does ms/mg mean? Even as a vet tech in my earlier days I don't remember the term. Like the rest of you good folks, I'm here to learn too.
Stay well and contented,
Neal, the Zooman

 

[Tippylou]

Great post Zooman!

 

[crazyhen]

My chickens have been vaccinated. Will they still shed the virus?
Yes. Studies have shown that it does not make a difference if birds are vaccinated or not-- once exposed and infected, even if they never show symptoms, they shed the virus. There is no considerable difference in the amount of virus shed, between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals, once they have been exposed. All birds exposed to Marek's virus should be considered carriers, for life. Reference: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1746-6148/7/70
This is where I got my information. M/S I microplasma Septor??? Mg is microplasma Gal??????Both are bad.I found this on this site in the information section on the home page. I did not mean to push any bad buttons thought I was being helpful.