Vacinations and other meds forever?

[Eric R]

So I see how certain herbal mixtures are good for treatment or prevention or general health but everything is moderation or circulation I should say. Too much oregano and you'll need to supplement good bacteria loss with fermented food or other good bacteria. Aloe is good for cocci but too much is also bad. Has anyone put together a good long term schedule / rotation of different natural stuff long term? I mean day to day for good health or prevention not treatment. Something like garlic and acv for a month then fermented food for another month then oregano for another month then pumpkin seed every 3 months for worms or something like that? Either a full year's schedule or seasonal or something like that?

 

[Eric R]

Also, found this video when searching for healthy breeds and thought it went well with this discussion.

 

[Arya28]

So I see how certain herbal mixtures are good for treatment or prevention or general health but everything is moderation or circulation I should say. Too much oregano and you'll need to supplement good bacteria loss with fermented food or other good bacteria. Aloe is good for cocci but too much is also bad. Has anyone put together a good long term schedule / rotation of different natural stuff long term? I mean day to day for good health or prevention not treatment. Something like garlic and acv for a month then fermented food for another month then oregano for another month then pumpkin seed every 3 months for worms or something like that? Either a full year's schedule or seasonal or something like that?

We don't have such a long term schedule as you're talking about. But you are absolutely right about needing to rotate these things, as you don't want anything to get too out of balance.

So for aloe and aloe juice, you need to supplement the chickens with electrolytes. This is because the aloe (while a great vitamin supplement and coccidiosis treatment) can actually create an electrolyte imbalance, which isn't good. Our rotation of these things partially depends on the age of our chickens, and what they have or haven't been exposed to. So if we have younger chickens (like a few weeks old) and we have just moved them to their outside coop, we know we will want to start them on aloe, vinegar, and oregano. So for the aloe, we generally do about 3-4 days. Then, however we will make sure to give them electrolytes for a couple days. Sometimes we will even provide aloe in one jar and electrolytes in another, depending.

And then after that, to get oregano into their systems (to build up their immunity), we generally add ripped up oregano leaves to their water, with apple cider vinegar. We do this for about 3-4 days, and then make sure to supplement them with probiotics for 3 days (to balance out the vinegar, and antibacterial properties of oregano). This restores their gut flora, and by the time they are done with the probiotics, they have just about everything they need. And then somedays we add garlic and oregano to their water for a couple days, but then make sure to balance that out with probiotics again.

For our bigger chickens, we basically do the same thing, just with longer rotations. We generally give them oregano and garlic regularly to keep them parasite free for intervals of 4-5 days. Then sometimes we will take a couple days off and start them on probiotics again.

Then some days we will go a while without anything like oregano or garlic, and just switch them between vinegar and probiotics.

Generally we don't stick to any one thing longer than a week, so that we can make sure they are getting what they need in balance. Our probiotics need to be given for 3 days, so naturally this is sort of the interval we go by with things.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

All that seems like a lot of work to me. I feed a pellet all flock, some scratch, and lots of range. My chickens are healthy, and live long lives without me doing much. I like chickens because they are easy, at least for me. Feed a decent ration, and don't crowd them, all the rest isn't really necessary in my experiences keeping chickens.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

For me, I keep ACV (raw with mother, plastic containers only) pretty much all the time in the waters. Then have good feed which contains prebiotics and probiotics and balanced nutrition.

I then *try* (though I admit I forget) to put out a home brew of Molly's herbals (which includes wormwood that has shown to paralyze and expel worms) in a mash with garlic (fresh best, but I also use powder), pumpkin seeds, and cayenne. I blend that up in a blender, choppy looking, smelling like an Italian restaurant and looking noticeably "rusty." The cycle is 3 days every 6 weeks as the wormwood can be toxic. I probably do that about every 2 months (that 6 week thing keeps blowing by...I can remember months better, on the same day). My birds aren't always really keen on eating it, but I do try to remember to offer it to them.

Before Hygromycin B was taken off the market, I would worm with those pellets twice a year in fall and spring for a week as it was FDA approved with no egg pull time.

Since Hygromycin B is off the market, I now am using up some Ivermectin before it goes beyond pull date. I had a bad Northern Fowl Mite infestation awhile back, and bought some. Ivermectin can work for external and internal worms too *if* your worm population hasn't developed resistance. So that is what I am using this season spring/fall.

Next spring/fall I will try the copper sulfate in the water...I think that is for 3 days.

I will then assess if that is adequate to keep worms at bay. If not, I will reassess what I will use next. Remember, it is best to rotate your products.

I do keep permethrin dust sprinkled in the coops, under the bedding at all times. Sometimes I alternate with Sevin as its cheaper (though technically not on label any more for chickens). That keeps a rotation on external parasites.

Remember I live on a small 1/3 acre with about 15 to 18 birds (give or take some) in a mild, wet climate, that often doesn't get a lot of killing cold. My soil can build up quickly with parasites especially since rats are a bane in our region. (We joke we can't kill them all...you just worry them enough to go to the neighbors for awhile to give you a rest).

Those in northern states which get very cold, freezing winters, weeks on end, don't see the parasites those of us in warmer, milder, wetter states do. Ditto with those that have rotated acreage for their birds. If I only kept 6 chickens, I would not see as much build up on my land...but I get chicken happy, and keep more since they have plenty of elbow room, but it does tend to tramp the same grounds over a season.

Anyway, that's my herbal schedule....3 days on 6 to 8 weeks off.

I'll link Molly's Herbals below if you are interested. If you poke around on her site, you'll see more natural and herbal philosophies to read as well.
http://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/mollysherbals.php/categories/herbal-wormer

LofMc

 

[igorsMistress]

So I see how certain herbal mixtures are good for treatment or prevention or general health but everything is moderation or circulation I should say. Too much oregano and you'll need to supplement good bacteria loss with fermented food or other good bacteria. Aloe is good for cocci but too much is also bad. Has anyone put together a good long term schedule / rotation of different natural stuff long term? I mean day to day for good health or prevention not treatment. Something like garlic and acv for a month then fermented food for another month then oregano for another month then pumpkin seed every 3 months for worms or something like that? Either a full year's schedule or seasonal or something like that?

No schedule here. I feed fermented food and give fresh water daily. I give herbs as I have them, and I grow some for free choice grazing until they die off. I don't give garlic very often, if I have extra that's chopped I toss some out for the birds to find. I keep dried herbs to sprinkle on their feed in winter.
I give access to a variety of greens and make sure they get animal protein a few times a week.
I try to give my birds a wide variety of seasonal choices in moderation and sometimes I stop fermented feed for a week or so to give em a break.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

For me, I keep ACV (raw with mother, plastic containers only) pretty much all the time in the waters. Then have good feed which contains prebiotics and probiotics and balanced nutrition.

I then *try* (though I admit I forget) to put out a home brew of Molly's herbals (which includes wormwood that has shown to paralyze and expel worms) in a mash with garlic (fresh best, but I also use powder), pumpkin seeds, and cayenne. I blend that up in a blender, choppy looking, smelling like an Italian restaurant and looking noticeably "rusty." The cycle is 3 days every 6 weeks as the wormwood can be toxic. I probably do that about every 2 months (that 6 week thing keeps blowing by...I can remember months better, on the same day). My birds aren't always really keen on eating it, but I do try to remember to offer it to them.

Before Hygromycin B was taken off the market, I would worm with those pellets twice a year in fall and spring for a week as it was FDA approved with no egg pull time.

Since Hygromycin B is off the market, I now am using up some Ivermectin before it goes beyond pull date. I had a bad Northern Fowl Mite infestation awhile back, and bought some. Ivermectin can work for external and internal worms too *if* your worm population hasn't developed resistance. So that is what I am using this season spring/fall.

Next spring/fall I will try the copper sulfate in the water...I think that is for 3 days.

I will then assess if that is adequate to keep worms at bay. If not, I will reassess what I will use next. Remember, it is best to rotate your products.

I do keep permethrin dust sprinkled in the coops, under the bedding at all times. Sometimes I alternate with Sevin as its cheaper (though technically not on label any more for chickens). That keeps a rotation on external parasites.

Remember I live on a small 1/3 acre with about 15 to 18 birds (give or take some) in a mild, wet climate, that often doesn't get a lot of killing cold. My soil can build up quickly with parasites especially since rats are a bane in our region. (We joke we can't kill them all...you just worry them enough to go to the neighbors for awhile to give you a rest).

Those in northern states which get very cold, freezing winters, weeks on end, don't see the parasites those of us in warmer, milder, wetter states do. Ditto with those that have rotated acreage for their birds. If I only kept 6 chickens, I would not see as much build up on my land...but I get chicken happy, and keep more since they have plenty of elbow room, but it does tend to tramp the same grounds over a season.

Anyway, that's my herbal schedule....3 days on 6 to 8 weeks off.

I'll link Molly's Herbals below if you are interested. If you poke around on her site, you'll see more natural and herbal philosophies to read as well.
http://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/mollysherbals.php/categories/herbal-wormer

LofMc

Your climate can definitely affect your husbandry. I'm in Wisconsin with wicked winters where many nasties are killed by such a hard freeze. I have never had coccidiosis or seen a single worm in my birds so I never worm. I have dusted for mites a few times over the year but never yearly. I think I have my climate to thank. I currently have approximately 120 poultry. We have 40 acres, but the birds probably limit their range to 5-10 acres. Having that room to spread out plus a very large shed for them makes my job easier, and the flock healthy, both mentally and physically.

 

[Kiki]

Subscribing.
I need to go back and start at the beginning tonight.
Thanks all.

 

[Eric R]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4967842/

Dang. Garlic doing some good even in the egg?

 

[pennyJo1960]

Many of us aren't feeding ANY medicine, herbal or not, to our birds, and they do fine. If a problem appears, it needs to be identified and managed, but that's part of good husbandry. Mary

thank you I agree I have never used medicated feed same as I was raised acv is added to water off and on but not daily and do not mess with herbs