Vacinations and other meds forever?

[speckledhen]

I want to add that some are saying they've used only herbals to "cure" respiratory disease. Coryza, Mycoplasmosis and some others simply cannot be cured, by natural methods or by antibiotics and anyone who says different is either ill-informed or just pulling your leg. These diseases can only be managed if you do not cull. The "recovered" birds are carriers.
Herbals are fine for boosting immune systems and I'm all for it, but the way you develop a healthy flock with strong immune systems is to remove all birds who become symptomatic, meaning they were weak enough to catch the disease in the first place. Exposure does not always mean infection or no one could ever go to a doctor's office waiting room. If the birds caught it and survived, that does not make them strong. It only makes them Typhoid Marys. They are your weak links. *meaning for contagious disease, not some situation limited to one bird*

Even if it was not contagious, something like pneumonia can weaken the bird's lungs so that in future periods of wet, cold weather, that same bird can be more susceptible to it again, This is not the same as being a carrier--this information came directly from a well-respected veterinarian who treated a friend's rooster for pneumonia when he was very young. The cockerel and another bird were in a cage and were caught out in a sudden cold rain, soaked to the bone. The vet said it was pneumonia and treated them both, said that he would probably get it again at some point, having his respiratory system weakened, but that he was NOT contagious. He did a couple of other times in his life in very wet, cold weather, but he is still alive at 7 years old and has not infected any other birds, so the vet was on the money. Now, she could have chosen to cull that bird, but because he was not a danger to others, she kept him and he has been a strong, healthy rooster who sired many wonderful offspring. It depends on what you want to do, the time you want to put into one chicken, but it pays to ascertain if the bird is actually contagious and a danger to the others in the flock.

P.S. Turkeys sound like a hoot. I had guineas. May have to get those again some day. Talk about looney!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Lots of excellent posts here. I especially enjoyed the turkey stories, and how some are using turkeys advantageously to prevent Marek's in their chicken flocks. Since having my dog on an E-collar, I don't get the wild turkeys parading through the yard like they used to. However, they do occasionally skirt around the perimeter, and they can sometimes be seen parading down the road, or heard in the woods. Perhaps it's time to start putting some cracked corn out to attract both turkeys (for Marek's protection) and crows (for protection from hawks).

I've had a crow snatch chicks one year right from a bantam hen. Since than there is a crow that comes around yearly at about the same time of year and will fly over daily. It leaves about a month later, every year. I personally wouldn't encourage crows for that reason. They are too smart.

 

[Folly's place]

Speckled hen is right on, as usual! I want to add that there's very little that's 'natural' about modern chickens, or coop and runs. 'Natural' chickens a those birds in SE Asia in the jungle. Our birds have been selected for generations to lay many more eggs per year, and grow much larger, and live in the north in a smaller confined environment.
IMO good husbandry includes everything she's mentioned, including keeping healthy birds (at least breeding stock!!!), good food, and effective treatments for things that need to be treated.
Mary

 

[Arya28]

I decided a long time ago not to have a husband. I don't get into husbandry. I can recommend a good divorce attorney though.

 

[Folly's place]

So far, the husband is fine. Mary

 

[getaclue]

I've never considered a divorce. I take the "till death do you part" seriously. There have been times, however, that Dh has gotten on my nerves bad enough I've considered hiring O.J. Simpson's dream team.

 

[Eric R]

Ok. So for those that cull the weak, does that mean not treating sickness and culling right away or simply not allowing them to hatch chicks? If i can treat a sick hen and she recovers, why not get eggs from her?

 

[Arya28]

Ok. So for those that cull the weak, does that mean not treating sickness and culling right away or simply not allowing them to hatch chicks? If i can treat a sick hen and she recovers, why not get eggs from her?

I realize a lot of people on here would probably do this differently, and that's ok. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but this is what we would do.

If we have a sick hen, and she has recovered (regardless of whether or not she is a carrier), depending on how sick she was, we would still consider hatching out her eggs. If the hen has a resistance built to the sickness, there is a very good chance her offspring will, too. This is a key part in creating a genetically strong and illness resistance flock- letting them build up immunity on their own. We wouldn't cull the hen if she recovers. And even if (which I am not saying I think would be the case) the hen and chicks were carriers, the rest that didn't catch the illness have strong enough immune systems (that's why they didn't get sick in the first place) that it shouldn't be a problem to them either.

Personally, if a bird is sick, I think culling it is pointless unless you know 100% that the bird will have a poor quality of life and won't be able to be happy anymore. It's kind of like when you get a fever- your body created that fever to fight off an existing infection. If you inhibit that fever with medication you are preventing it from eliminating the infection. If you let it take it's course, it should break and cure on it's own. If you cull a sick bird, you are inhibiting the ability for your flock to build genetic resistance to it. This is how we view our flock.

So we don't cull the sick ones, we help them overcome it the best that they can, build up their immunity, and the the offspring should be resistant too. Just like with what everyone was saying about Mareks and turkeys, which I think makes sense.

This doesn't mean natural selection doesn't come into play here, because it does. Just, well, naturally. If you build up their immune systems the way they are supposed to be, if they can't overcome the illness without medications and antibiotics, they wouldn't be able to in nature. The ones that do survive it though will be stronger. We don't cull because it is an opportunity to make our flock healthier.

I'm not saying you should always breed the ill ones on purpose, but if the illness isn't life threatening, I would consider it so they can be immune. However, you should definitely breed the healthy birds in your flock too, even if you don't cull any sick ones.

I know many will disagree with this, and I am ok with that. Because I know, regardless of what anyone else says, that our chickens our healthier because of what we are doing. Eric, I hope you and others will find this beneficial!

 

[getaclue]

Eric, that depends on the sickness, circumstances, situation, etc.

All eggs should be collected on a daily basis. For breeding, select the best representation of the breed you are wanting, or if you want mixed breeds, choose the best representations of your flock. Those that are the best size, hardiest, with no health, or temperament (don't breed mean roosters) issues. Towards the end of winter, set up breeding pens. Put 1 rooster per 2 - 3 hens in each of the breeding pens. Hens can retain sperm for about a month, so after a month, start collecting those eggs. You can either incubate, or put them under a broody. When incubating, you can collect the eggs, and store them at room temp. for up to 10 days. When you've hatched out the desired number of chicks, then reintegrate them back into the main flock.

I typically set up just 1 breeding pen with 1 rooster, and 2 - 3 hens. That's 60 - 90 viable eggs a month. I only hatch out about 50 chicks a year. I weigh them, watch them, and select 1 cockerel, and 3 pullets for next year's breeding program, and put leg bands on them. I keep some of the hens for eggs, and to replace the older ones that are not going to lay as much.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Ok. So for those that cull the weak, does that mean not treating sickness and culling right away or simply not allowing them to hatch chicks? If i can treat a sick hen and she recovers, why not get eggs from her?

I cull birds that obviously suffering. Some respiratory illness they can recover from and others are deadly. Those that cause harder symptoms generally are more contagious. Leaving them in the flock can infect the whole flock.

I personally no longer treat birds because those they have become sick in the past and were treated generally die within the next year from something else. Healthy birds don't generally get sick, those with underlying health problems do.

Manage your flock as you see fit. I have seen zero advantages to treating sick birds. My birds are all allowed to live as long as they like. Any that are culled is to ease their suffering. I don't agree with letting a bird go right to the end if it's struggling. When they get sick than I watch and decide after a week or two of observations what is best for the bird. Very few die an easy death due to an illness.

I don't breed too often. I wouldn't breed from a sick bird or one that has gone through an illness unless it looks strong and fit with no obvious repercussions from the illness.