varied answers about humidity what do you recommend ? + showing off fridge bator

[Stephen JP]

I built my incubator and also a hatchery but its my plan to let my chicks hatch in the incubator and the move them to the hatchery for further growth. I have also build a chick rearing area for their next stage

 

[Stephen JP]

 

[ozexpat]

I am not sure how important all the tech is as when my birds are looking after their own eggs they don't have aids!! How does a chicken change the humidity? I have 94 eggs in my incubator at the moment, these are all different as in duck, chicken and guinea fowl. All due at different times!! However, I have 23 chicken eggs on day 18 and Muscovy s on day 8 so far all progress is good, fingers crossed

You must have a secret that I dont have. What are your hatch rated like when you have the humidity needed to prevent shrink wrapping running most of a hatch?

 

[yinepu]

i recently set up a mini fridge (that i was given for free at a storage auction) as an incubator and it is maintaining a temp at 99.5, it has a fan, heater, thermostat and humidity reader. i have a small bowl of water at the bottom for humidity and it is reading consistently at 37% humidity i am worried as some of the articles i have read say to keep it at 40% others 20% and 50% then 60s during lock down =/ the incubator is in the house and as i said maintaining these i have locked off one vent hole in hopes of raising humidity ...what should my humidity goals be for both dry and wet incubation? i'd prefer to try dry .

Most of the quotes for humidity are set by the poultry industry.. for COMMERCIAL hatcheries. Unless your home is in a climate controlled building like the big hatcheries use then their recommendations are nothing but garbage. every home will be different.. even areas of the same home will have different relative humidity. Having worked in commercial hatcheries I can tell you that the chances of your home being climate controlled like they are is highly unlikely. Humidity in a home will vary depending on the weather, season of the year, heater / AC usage plus water features like aquariums and showers.

The BEST way to determine your humidity needs for that particular batch of eggs is to either monitor air cell growth.. or if the eggs can not be candled easily by weight loss

the eggs will tell you everything you need to know for the amount of humidity THOSE eggs need for THAT particular hatch

I am not sure how important all the tech is as when my birds are looking after their own eggs they don't have aids!! How does a chicken change the humidity? I have 94 eggs in my incubator at the moment, these are all different as in duck, chicken and guinea fowl. All due at different times!! However, I have 23 chicken eggs on day 18 and Muscovy s on day 8 so far all progress is good, fingers crossed

People make it harder than it has to be.. incubating and hatching is easy.. it's not rocket science. Birds do it without benefit of "lockdown" or monitoring humidity

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I never do.. and I get 100% hatch rates on our eggs

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shrinkwrapping has very little to do with humidity. It has more to do with fan placement than anything else. I have chicks hatching out now that were dry incubated AND dry hatch.. meaning I have not added any water to the incubators. I monitored air cells and as chicks hatch they are raising the humidity naturally.. just as they do under a hen's behind. i have never met a hen yet who will suddenly panic and run around dipping her butt in a pan of water then planting it on the eggs and refusing to budge at all for 3 days because of "lockdown".. read this thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/745746/just-had-my-best-hatch-by-mistake
I think it will prove my point

Once you understand YOUR incubator and how it reacts in YOUR home.. and also understand the basics of incubation and hatching .. there is no reason why you should not get 100% hatch rates on every single healthy, fertile, undamaged egg that is placed in your incubator.



unhealthy eggs (dietary deficient), damaged eggs and unfertile eggs are always a gamble.. You may get an unhealthy or damaged egg to hatch.. but there is also a greater risk of those eggs having issues. which is why it's also important to make sure the parent stock is well cared for and that damaged eggs are handled with care (shipped eggs in particular)

 

[ozexpat]

Most of the quotes for humidity are set by the poultry industry.. for COMMERCIAL hatcheries. Unless your home is in a climate controlled building like the big hatcheries use then their recommendations are nothing but garbage. every home will be different.. even areas of the same home will have different relative humidity. Having worked in commercial hatcheries I can tell you that the chances of your home being climate controlled like they are is highly unlikely. Humidity in a home will vary depending on the weather, season of the year, heater / AC usage plus water features like aquariums and showers.

The BEST way to determine your humidity needs for that particular batch of eggs is to either monitor air cell growth.. or if the eggs can not be candled easily by weight loss

the eggs will tell you everything you need to know for the amount of humidity THOSE eggs need for THAT particular hatch







People make it harder than it has to be.. incubating and hatching is easy.. it's not rocket science. Birds do it without benefit of "lockdown" or monitoring humidity


I never do.. and I get 100% hatch rates on our eggs


shrinkwrapping has very little to do with humidity. It has more to do with fan placement than anything else. I have chicks hatching out now that were dry incubated AND dry hatch.. meaning I have not added any water to the incubators. I monitored air cells and as chicks hatch they are raising the humidity naturally.. just as they do under a hen's behind. i have never met a hen yet who will suddenly panic and run around dipping her butt in a pan of water then planting it on the eggs and refusing to budge at all for 3 days because of "lockdown".. read this thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/745746/just-had-my-best-hatch-by-mistake
I think it will prove my point

Once you understand YOUR incubator and how it reacts in YOUR home.. and also understand the basics of incubation and hatching .. there is no reason why you should not get 100% hatch rates on every single healthy, fertile, undamaged egg that is placed in your incubator.



unhealthy eggs (dietary deficient), damaged eggs and unfertile eggs are always a gamble.. You may get an unhealthy or damaged egg to hatch.. but there is also a greater risk of those eggs having issues. which is why it's also important to make sure the parent stock is well cared for and that damaged eggs are handled with care (shipped eggs in particular)

I essentially agree with your post

I do not really monitor humidity until the last 3 days - then I add water pans. I do look at cell size and shape as I candle for viability but it always seems to work out on its own with dry incubating. I do add water for the last 3 days and check that the humidity is over 60%.

I do not do staggered hatches in the same incubator though. My concern is that even if I was not adding water, the humidity from the hatching eggs would decrease the rate at which the egg cell in the younger eggs would develop. I move to a hatching specific incubator. I have seen some shrink wrapping in eggs that have pipped externally for an extended period of time only - in both still air and fan forces bators.

I was interested in how Stephen JP dealt with this issue.

 

[Bill 101]

AAH, YINEPU, Here we are again old friend. I've read through these (your) post & can find nothing much to disagree with. It's hard to argue with your results, experience or reasoning. The problem I have is that it is so completely different from my experience & the way I run my incubators that it's hard to get my head around. The one thing that I totally agree with is:

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How we both get there seems to be from two different directions especially when it comes to humidity.

 

[yinepu]

AAH, YINEPU, Here we are again old friend. I've read through these (your) post & can find nothing much to disagree with. It's hard to argue with your results, experience or reasoning. The problem I have is that it is so completely different from my experience & the way I run my incubators that it's hard to get my head around. The one thing that I totally agree with is:

Quote:

How we both get there seems to be from two different directions especially when it comes to humidity.

well that's what i have been trying to tell people.. they have to get to know how THEIR incubator reacts in THEIR home.. and it can change from season to season.. and what works for me in January might not work for you in January since our home and incubator locations are in two completely different locations with different parameters. That's also why so many people fail.. because they use the same old cookie cutter info put out by the poultry industry and then wonder why they have drowned chicks or chicks stuck in their shells..

Incubation is not a "one size fits all" scenario.. but the one thing that does hold true is to let the eggs tell you what they need.. since they are the best barometer for that particular hatch in that location and that incubator at that given time.
But people in general are sheep and want to be told exactly what and how to do things.. when in reality they have all the info right there in front of their noses..they are just too busy trying to make things harder than they have to be

 

[Bill 101]

You talk about "cookie cutter" I think I fit that description. When I've moved from state to state (CA, NV & OR) the only thing I adjusted was the water bottle up or down to give me the humidity I wanted. I've never hatched all year, basically early spring (maybe January) through June. Once I set the humidity, never had to adjust.
Now, about this statement:

Quote:
I Interpret your comment about humidity as: you determine how much water to add based on air cell size. I use a set humidity level to control the evaporation rate from the egg. Both end up at the same place. I sure can see that is confusing I see 50% humidity as 50% no matter what. In Florida or in the Desert, getting that 50% will vary considerably. I've been reluctant to recommend dry incubation because you have to know what your looking at & normally when "Newbie's" realize that there has been to much evaporation there isn't enough time to compensate, course recommending that they control evaporation loss through a constant humidity hasn't worked any better LOL

Fans: I understand that a fan might cause excessive moisture loss, but I also believe that moisture laden air (50% humidity) counteracts the affects of the fan. If you use a fan the air movement past the eggs is still fan driven either directly or indirectly --what am I missing??
A fan is not the only way an eggs can loose to much humidity. I had 2 hens setting, not wanting to break them up, because I had my break up pens full with other setters, I gave them 3 eggs each. One was a Jap setting inside a pen, inside a building. the other was a cochin setting in a nest box inside an outdoor pen, nest box on the ground. The Cochin hatched all 3, the Jap didn't hatch any. Only one of the Jap's eggs piped, it stopped part way around "shrink wrapped", the other 2 simply ran out of moisture before piping, of course neither one has a fan strapped to it's butt. I've never seen a chicken run out & dip her butt in water either, but Ducks do!!!

 

[PrairieRidge]

I wondered about that too. We are all so fussy about incubating our eggs and chickens do it without help. Everyone says that shouldn't store eggs for longer than 7 days, what about when the chickens lay eggs for longer and then lay on them. Sometimes I "think" humans over think things.....

 

[yinepu]

You talk about "cookie cutter" I think I fit that description. When I've moved from state to state (CA, NV & OR) the only thing I adjusted was the water bottle up or down to give me the humidity I wanted. I've never hatched all year, basically early spring (maybe January) through June. Once I set the humidity, never had to adjust.
Now, about this statement:

Quote:

I Interpret your comment about humidity as: you determine how much water to add based on air cell size. I use a set humidity level to control the evaporation rate from the egg. Both end up at the same place. I sure can see that is confusing I see 50% humidity as 50% no matter what. In Florida or in the Desert, getting that 50% will vary considerably. I've been reluctant to recommend dry incubation because you have to know what your looking at & normally when "Newbie's" realize that there has been to much evaporation there isn't enough time to compensate, course recommending that they control evaporation loss through a constant humidity hasn't worked any better LOL

Fans: I understand that a fan might cause excessive moisture loss, but I also believe that moisture laden air (50% humidity) counteracts the affects of the fan. If you use a fan the air movement past the eggs is still fan driven either directly or indirectly --what am I missing??
A fan is not the only way an eggs can loose to much humidity. I had 2 hens setting, not wanting to break them up, because I had my break up pens full with other setters, I gave them 3 eggs each. One was a Jap setting inside a pen, inside a building. the other was a cochin setting in a nest box inside an outdoor pen, nest box on the ground. The Cochin hatched all 3, the Jap didn't hatch any. Only one of the Jap's eggs piped, it stopped part way around "shrink wrapped", the other 2 simply ran out of moisture before piping, of course neither one has a fan strapped to it's butt. I've never seen a chicken run out & dip her butt in water either, but Ducks do!!!

The problem with the recommendations that most people find on the internet though is that they are "set in stone".. For example.. If I tried incubating right now at 50% i would have drowned chicks. Our heater isn't running. I have several large aquariums in my home.. and we have been getting rain or heavy dew off and on. The outside temps are still pretty low and we are not in drought conditions.. so hopefully you can see that 50% wouldn't work in my situation.
Plus a lot of the time someone will see a "wet bulb" reading and interpret THAT number as being the humidity % and not a wet bulb reading. Incubating Muscovys is a perfect example. i have seen where one site recommends 85 ºF wet bulb.. and someone else comes along and parrots that as being 85.. but they add the "%" sign and not " ºF".. there is a big difference between the two! So they try to hatch out muscovys after incubating them at 85% humidity only to have a bunch of bloated mushy chicks that drown before they can even begin to try to make a pip in the shell. And that's how muscovys got the reputation for being so hard to hatch... Water fowl Do need more moisture at hatch.. but that's how nature programmed them.. they do not however need to be drowned in their shells.

Fans are mainly a problem when they blow directly ONTO the egg.. it's not about making air cells to big at that point. Lets say "chick A" hatches out pretty fast.. small pip and quick zip with that fan blowing directly on it.. there isn't a problem with it's hatch.. then "Chick B" decides to hatch.. the humidity has already been raised by the first chick hatching plus whatever water was added by the person who is operating the incubator.. so humidity is in acceptable range.. "chick B" though makes a large pip hole.. then takes a break.. he takes a nap.. rests up.. then finds that the fan that was blowing directly on his big ol pip hole in the shell has dried out the membrane causing him to be shrinkwrapped even though the incubator's humidity is very high.
THAT is the problem with some fans and how the manufacturers set them into the incubators. I never had problems with shrinkwrapped chicks until I started using Brinsea incubators.. the only difference between them and other bators I have used is the location of the fan. I even experimented with them to try to "get to know my incubator".. some hatches were fine.. all chicks pipped and zipped pretty fast and didn't have issues.. but there were others with the one same thing in common.. all those chicks made large pips and rested. In other bators I have used that was never an issue.. chicks could pip and rest and hatch later with no problem.. . But in the Brinseas every single chick that did it shrinkwrapped... and that was even with my humidity at 90% at hatch (yes.. the hygrometers were calibrated before every single incubation)
Now take an incubator that was properly designed. The air flows AROUND the eggs and not directly onto them.. in that scenario chick B stands much less of a chance of getting shrinkwrapped because there is no direct air blowing right on the giant hole in his shell.
Can a chick still get shrinkwrapped even with proper fan placement?. yes.. but the fan placement is in my opinion the worst contributor to shrinkwrapping than any thing else.

for the fan issue.. think of it this way.. you take a wet bath towel.. lay it out so only one portion of it is directly in front of a fan that is blowing.. you can even seal them in a box if you want (which incubators shouldn't be sealed air tight anyway.. but that's besides the point). The portion of that towel that is directly in the flow of air will dry out faster than the portion that is out of the direct flow of the air.