Vegan diet for chickens - is it unhealthy?

[samanthaoverton]

Someone you know..is a quack. Chickens aren't vegan. They are omnivores. They eat other critters and greens. Poor girl was better off being eaten. She must of been in so much pain laying that first egg. This someone you know is selfish...and I'll informed.

Someone I know has a "rescue" cornish/leghorn cross that they stole off a slaughter truck at 6 weeks. She's now 2 years old and poor girl doesn't look healthy at all. She is fed exclusively greens and (previously) her own eggs. She recieves no commercial feed or supplementation. She is fed 3 small cat bowls of mixed greens per day, and when she was still laying that would also include one boiled egg with shell.

Her feathers are dull and scrappy, she's bony and underweight, still has down feathers on her tail, has an almost yellow pallored face, and did not lay her first egg until nearly 2 years old. She would take up to ten hours to lay and would act extremely painful and agitated during the process, before her owner gave hormone implants to stop laying. Citing "speciesism", the owner will not see a vet.

The owner insists that fully vegan diets are healthiest for chickens, but I largely suspect this bird's poor health and failure to thrive is due to how she's being fed. She lives indoors so she gets no forage. Is it possible her poor health is just because of poor genetics (she was a broiler heading to slaughter, after all)? Are vegan diets sustainable for chickens? And if not, how can I convince them otherwise?

 

[BelovedBirds]

Then why do people eat chickens and pigs from factory farms. ?

Because they either dont know or value a certain cheap product more. Which is exactly my point, knowing we are causing suffering and doing nothing to stop- it is wrong. Whereas a wild animal has no knowledge or choice in the matter.

 

[DuneDucks]

Then why do people eat chickens and pigs from factory farms. ?

If anything, I think factory farms prove the point @BelovedBirds was making. A lot of people are arguing about the process of absorbing nutrients themselves being natural, sure, but the industrial slaughter of billions of animals is far from a natural process. It's a deliberately human-constructed process designed to effectively feed the masses and generate profit. Same goes for the dairy industry.

Either way a lot of this conversation has been a back-and-forth on semantics, which isn't particularly interesting or informative tbh. I did find some interesting reading on the subject though, including this pros vs cons on the benefits of milk. https://milk.procon.org/questions/is-drinking-milk-healthy-for-humans/

Milk provides essential nutrients, but none are irreplaceable elsewhere, and 60% of adults can't properly digest it, and is attributed to a range of health problems from nausea and diarrhea to heart disease, and in extreme cases, cancer. And this is coming from someone who drinks milk on nearly daily basis. I have no hidden agenda here.

 

[BelovedBirds]

I agree, it was just something that came to mind. Actually I agree with much of what you say here and also believe we, as the supposed most intelligent species on earth, do have an obligation to be as humane as possible.
That's why so many of us here raise our own meat and eggs, so that we don't have rely on and support factory farmed food sources.
The harvesting of eggs, meat and milk from animals in itself is not the problem, all of these things can be done in a humane and respectful way. The root of the problem lies here- WORLD POPULATION
It's not possible to reliably and economically feed almost 8 billion people without some intensive farming techniques.

I agree with you, definitely. And I have much more respect for people who raise their own animals, I won't lie and say I'm totally comfortable with it, but I definitely acknowledge it is far better than commercial farming. And population also factors into the problem 100%.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Because they either dont know or value a certain cheap product more. Which is exactly my point, knowing we are causing suffering and doing nothing to stop- it is wrong. Whereas a wild animal has no knowledge or choice in the matter.

There is of course, the possibility that they understand the futility of trying to support the world human population on the diet you propose, and while perhaps agreeing that there are too many humans on the planet, believe it would be unethical for them to mandate production methods which would result in widespread human starvation. Or other reasons I can reasonably imagine.

There is no magical morality equation written as unalterable truth for all to see.

Nor, once again, do our personal ethics have anything to do with the optimal nutritional needs of poultry. I'll stick with discussing things we can (mostly) agree to the ground rules on.

 

[BelovedBirds]

And this is coming from someone who drinks milk on nearly daily basis. I have no hidden agenda here.

Very well said!
I read this last sentence and just wanted to note here, I dont think I'm better than anyone, even people who buy from factory farms. I ate all sorts of meat, dairy, eggs for most of my life-- I even went back and forth with it while knowing full well how it was produced. So I don't want anyone to think I'm judging them! Just sharing my view and what I've learned along the way, and I'm happy to agree to disagree

 

[BelovedBirds]

There is of course, the possibility that they understand the futility of trying to support the world human population on the diet you propose, and while perhaps agreeing that there are too many humans on the planet, believe it would be unethical for them to mandate production methods which would result in widespread human starvation. Or other reasons I can reasonably imagine.

There is no magical morality equation written as unalterable truth for all to see.

Nor, once again, do our personal ethics have anything to do with the optimal nutritional needs of poultry. I'll stick with discussing things we can (mostly) agree to the ground rules on.

I get that- Of course I'm not suggesting the whole world stops everything they're doing and become vegan- in time I hope there will be a gradual change that eventually results in humans being able to eat without causing other beings suffering.

And I agree, personal ethics have nothing to do with poultry- as I've said before, no one should get an animal without commititing to that animal's needs. Poultry aren't vegan, and deserve to have their needs met. I think we agree on this, and can agree to disagree on the rest

 

[Geena]

in time I hope there will be a gradual change that eventually results in humans being able to eat without causing other beings suffering.

Sorry, but that's just pie in the sky thinking.
The farming of fruits, vegetable and nuts results in untold numbers of animals being killed and/or losing habitat.
It would be wonderful if animals, and humans for that matter, never had to suffer, but unfortunately that not reality. Pain, suffering and death is part of life, always has been and always will be.

 

[SandyRiverChick]

I really don't know why I opened this thread, because I want to feel upset maybe? I have Vegans in my family and to answer your question about "how can I convince them," believe me you won't. I've talked out the issue of eating eggs to them and no amount of common sense is going to prevail. But for kicks you could ask them what they think the chicken would eat should they turn it loose in the world... plant based diet? Well sure plants, but it would NOT end there. The poor dear would ENJOY a diet of bugs and mice! That is if she was healthy enough to catch them of course. She would without question eat any amount of meat she could find because that is what her body/DNA tells her to do! She is an omnivore, period. You can't make Wolf a Vegan either. Come on!

 

[BelovedBirds]

Sorry, but that's just pie in the sky thinking.
The farming of fruits, vegetable and nuts results in untold numbers of animals being killed and/or losing habitat.
It would be wonderful if animals, and humans for that matter, never had to suffer, but unfortunately that not reality. Pain, suffering and death is part of life, always has been and always will be.

I disagree, mass farming cattle and other livestock causes so much more harm than farming plants, deforestation for grazing land, huge amounts of greenhouse gases being released--- it is worse for the planet. We're already farming plenty of plants which are then harvested for said livestock, and us as well. And of course what I am talking about would be sustainable farming. Nothing happens immediately, if it did it would be devastating. But a gradual change is 100% possible.
And fyi, I didn't even mention veganism, I just said without suffering. If the only way to live on this earth is by torturing billions of animals in factory farms, then I don't want to live in that world. I have to believe that change is possible