Vegans of BYC!!

[BelovedBirds]

Ok so trying to follow… so if I’m understanding you the law regarding food in this situation would need to be upheld to receive Christ and enter into the kingdom of heaven?

No, due to the sacrifice on the cross, anyone who repents is saved by grace alone through faith

The thing is, true faith, true repentance creates a desire to obey God
You can be saved, but you wouldn't forsake the ten commandments and start lying and stealing, would you? You'd continue to do your best and repent on a daily basis. Not saved by law, this would be impossible to follow perfectly, saved by grace.
If a person willfully rejects those laws, after receiving full knowledge of them, then they may not have the faith they think they do

 

[BelovedBirds]

I agree and know it’s a vision. The Jew is clean the gentile is unclean. At the same time Cornelius was receiving a parallel vision to get Peter and bring him to his house. The Jew and Gentiles became one under God. The levitical law was laid out to sort out the specific animals to separate Jews and Gentiles also. Just not seeing how both scenarios don’t apply. Yes it’s a vision of mixing of one church and yes it removes the dietary standard for Jews that never applied to Gentiles. If that wasn’t the case Gentiles would be left out of heaven if only the law mattered.

You're mistaken on that last note, if a gentile wanted to follow God, they were considered lesser, not allowed to enter temples etc etc. But they weren't prevented from joining the community and following Him, and that meant following the same laws.
They were made equal after Christ came, but the laws always applied to gentiles as well, and must still. Unless any non jew can lie, murder, steal. Etc etc. The laws still apply, we just aren't save by them.

 

[Bhubbard]

No, due to the sacrifice on the cross, anyone who repents is saved by grace alone through faith

The thing is, true faith, true repentance creates a desire to obey God
You can be saved, but you wouldn't forsake the ten commandments and start lying and stealing, would you? You'd continue to do your best and repent on a daily basis. Not saved by law, this would be impossible to follow perfectly, saved by grace.
If a person willfully rejects those laws, after receiving full knowledge of them, then they may not have the faith they think they do

I agree with this 100%

Just not sure where to go with mark 7: 1-23 ish …

 

[BelovedBirds]

I agree with this 100%

Just not sure where to go with mark 7: 1-23 ish …

Without going super deep into it, again the context isn't meats, its about the disciples who ate without washing their hands. This was considered not simply unhygienic but sinful. And Jesus corrects them
The context isn't unclean and clean meats. If it had included what you ate (not just how you ate), then we would have seen Jesus or the disciples eat unclean meat- but they never did. They followed the laws. Even in the vision, Peter never backed down and realised it was symbolic

 

[Bhubbard]

Without going super deep into it, again the context isn't meats, its about the disciples who ate without washing their hands. This was considered not simply unhygienic but sinful. And Jesus corrects them
The context isn't unclean and clean meats. If it had included what you ate (not just how you ate), then we would have seen Jesus or the disciples eat unclean meat- but they never did. They followed the laws. Even in the vision, Peter never backed down and realised it was symbolic

it specifically states nothing outside of a man/woman going into them can defile them. So dirty hands, food or anything. It says it goes to the stomach and out of a man/woman. Their dirty hands didn’t go to their stomach so if it was only about them not washing hands the scriptures wouldn’t have included that. You are correct in saying we should obey that’s how you show love and follow him. The drawing by God does just that. So lying or murder comes out of the heart and is apart of the new covenant law. The legalist (law followers) were being corrected specifically here. Sounds like we both understand scripture pretty well. I have no problems with going deeper. I’m always happy to change my belief based on scripture. I just can’t follow that last part knowing Mark specially states nothing going into the stomach defiles a man.

 

[BelovedBirds]

it specifically states nothing outside of a man/woman going into them can defile them. So dirty hands, food or anything. It says it goes to the stomach and out of a man/woman. Their dirty hands didn’t go to their stomach so if it was only about them not washing hands the scriptures wouldn’t have included that. You are correct in saying we should obey that’s how you show love and follow him. The drawing by God does just that. So lying or murder comes out of the heart and is apart of the new covenant law. The legalist (law followers) were being corrected specifically here. Sounds like we both understand scripture pretty well. I have no problems with going deeper. I’m always happy to change my belief based on scripture. I just can’t follow that last part knowing Mark specially states nothing going into the stomach defiles a man.

The dirt on their hands did go into their stomach, actually, that was the point of the pharisees contention, dirty unwashed hands
Jesus no where stated specifically *anything* that goes into the body is fine. He simply said that this isn't what defiles a man, rather what he says and the actions he takes.
This is one scripture out of context, which you're taking, over the many many other scriptures which are clear on this matter. And the fact that again, Jesus' disciples never ate unclean meat. This wasn't about the meats

The thing is, I have no problem getting deep into this, but the trouble is, my knowledge is a few years old. Some things I memorised like in Acts etc. Other things I'm not that sharp on anymore, and I don't feel like digging out my bible translations and combing through it, and looking it all up in the original greek- I just don't have time for that
You can believe and do whatever you want, but the scriptures, all of them, not one singled out verse taken out of context, are clear on these laws

It wasn't just this law about meats, it was the sabbath day (which the Catholic Church openly changed from Saturday to Sunday as "their mark of authority" (direct quote). It's the fact women covered their heads in prayer until the very recent few hundred years when the large churches began changing these practices.
If you believe the saints who lives with Christ as his friends, knew better about scripture than we do, then I think you need to look into everything the church has recently done away with.

And for the record, I'm not okay with it all- I don't agree with it all, not anymore. There are some scriptures which are outright cruel. I'm not an advocate for this book, I'm simply being real about what it says. I have much more respect for a believer who follows the true words of that book, than for someone who says they believe it all, but twists it to their advantage (not for one second am I calling you the latter, you clearly take this seriously and fit the former imo. I'm just making my position clear).

 

[Bhubbard]

The dirt on their hands did go into their stomach, actually, that was the point of the pharisees contention, dirty unwashed hands
Jesus no where stated specifically *anything* that goes into the body is fine. He simply said that this isn't what defiles a man, rather what he says and the actions he takes.
This is one scripture out of context, which you're taking, over the many many other scriptures which are clear on this matter. And the fact that again, Jesus' disciples never ate unclean meat. This wasn't about the meats

The thing is, I have no problem getting deep into this, but the trouble is, my knowledge is a few years old. Some things I memorised like in Acts etc. Other things I'm not that sharp on anymore, and I don't feel like digging out my bible translations and combing through it, and looking it all up in the original greek- I just don't have time for that
You can believe and do whatever you want, but the scriptures, all of them, not one singled out verse taken out of context, are clear on these laws

It wasn't just this law about meats, it was the sabbath day (which the Catholic Church openly changed from Saturday to Sunday as "their mark of authority" (direct quote). It's the fact women covered their heads in prayer until the very recent few hundred years when the large churches began changing these practices.
If you believe the saints who lives with Christ as his friends, knew better about scripture than we do, then I think you need to look into everything the church has recently done away with.

And for the record, I'm not okay with it all- I don't agree with it all, not anymore. There are some scriptures which are outright cruel. I'm not an advocate for this book, I'm simply being real about what it says. I have much more respect for a believer who follows the true words of that book, than for someone who says they believe it all, but twists it to their advantage (not for one second am I calling you the latter, you clearly take this seriously and fit the former imo. I'm just making my position clear).

I understand you and enjoy the peaceful convo. I love Jesus and even just talking through it. We can leave it at where it is just was looking for understanding.

 

[Sussex19]

@BelovedBirds, I have a question.
It seems to me, (as an omnivore) that a good argument for eating meat is the fact that unless you are going to let all breeds of animals go extinct, there has to be some breeding going on.
And there is always going to be just as many males has females, so what are you going to do with the males?
Yes, in some cases they can be kept in a bachelor flock, but in many cases this just isn't practical.
Also, if you keep those which are bad mothers, have deformities, etc. the whole breed is going to go downhill.
What are your thoughts on this, as a vegan? And how do other vegans of the more extreme kind think about it?
I have been wondering about it for rather a long time, so hope you don't mind me asking.

 

[Chicken poppy]

@BelovedBirds, I have a question.
It seems to me, (as an omnivore) that a good argument for eating meat is the fact that unless you are going to let all breeds of animals go extinct, there has to be some breeding going on.
And there is always going to be just as many males has females, so what are you going to do with the males?
Yes, in some cases they can be kept in a bachelor flock, but in many cases this just isn't practical.
Also, if you keep those which are bad mothers, have deformities, etc. the whole breed is going to go downhill.
What are your thoughts on this, as a vegan? And how do other vegans of the more extreme kind think about it?
I have been wondering about it for rather a long time, so hope you don't mind me asking.

Im sorry if i misunderstood but what i’m taking from this is your asking if vegans can put down animals, is this correct?

If so, my take is putting down any animals that can’t live a good life. Yes, this also means putting down a rooster. If you feel that the quality of a roosters life would be degrading by giving it to someone who cannot properly care for them, that isn’t ethical, and sometimes its better to just put them down painlessly then be succumbed to cruel things some people do with them. This is how i look at it:

You brought that chicken into the world, you give it a good life. The least you can do is provide it with a good owner. If you cannot do that, the best thing to do is to humanely put down, but atleast try.

 

[Sussex19]

Im sorry if i misunderstood but what i’m taking from this is your asking if vegans can put down animals, is this correct?

Not quite, although I guess it goes together.
I know any good vegan (I won't go in to the bad ones, like some of them on yt) like all you guys, (and me when I was vegetarian) would put down an animal if it was suffering.
But I'm talking about eating those, which while they 'could' live a happy life, have something that isn't right about them.
For example, those which when they hatch need a lot of assistance, or a broody hen that kills her chicks.
If you keep them, and breed from them, the whole breed will start to take on those traits.
So they need to be culled, (as I see it) from the breeding program.
And while a few could be kept as pets, that would not be practical for all of them. (not enough funds to feed them, not enough room, etc.)
So if they need to be put down for those reasons (not for ill health) why not eat them?
Just some questions that I have been asking myself, as I work out why I do things, and what is right in my mind, as I get older.