Very poor health...not sure what else to do!

[luvmybirdz]

I've posted on my birds not laying and what I thought was going on there. I came to the conclusion that we may be dealing with worms. I've seen none, but due to the symptoms that's what I came up with. Loss of weight, lack of laying, poor feather condition, etc. It occured to me when I was able to pick up our rooster (a light Brahma) and I was shocked at how light he was. He's been acting 'off'....no more crowing (none of the roos have been), much more calm, and then started having trouble standing (falling out of the coop in the morning). I also noted diarrhea.

I've treated them with Wazine (the roo a 2nd time due to a regression after he started doing better), given pumpkins to them 3 times, and giving DE/Cayenne daily in feed (for about 2+weeks now). I need to do the vinnegar in the water too and give them some homemade yogurt. I've done all I know to do to help w/worm issues. What can I feed them to help add good nutrition and add weight to them? Most of my birds are 'bigger bodied' birds and are all low on weight (which I assumed was due to worms)

The back story to this is when we got the Nubian goats. It was when they came in things started to go south w/the birds. The goats came to me apparently infested w/strongyles (worms). I've not found anything on these worms being an issue for ckns. The goats have been treated but I saw yesterday as they were pooping, the ckns were right behind them 'investigating' what was left behind (YUCK). If there is a possibility of the ckns getting these worms the goats have I don't think the Wazine will help. Before I added it to the water I called the vet to see if it was bad for the goats (they share the same waterers). She said it was fine and as a medication had no affect on them at all. So would that mean that med would also have no affect on that type of worm?

We wound up finding a dead bird a day ago and the roo seems to be doing better and then will start acting 'off' again and having trouble w/his legs. It's more a weakness issue than an issue w/his legs I believe. We feed him extra and have brought him in to watch/tend to him some nights. He seems to have gained some weight since the 2nd worming several days ago. I wasn't even sure if a 2nd treatement was ok. I thought we may lose him so I just went for it in hopes it would help.

I've seen no evidence of lice/mites (they were treated earlier in the summer for this). The only thing constant is that things went downhill when the goats came (which was aprox mid July) They were laying up to 13 eggs a day (15 hens) and I assumed from the stress of the goat invasion, laying immediately decreased by almost half and then just continued dropping in the following weeks until nothing. I'd assumed 1st molt maybe and it was probably likely. The main group of birds just turned 1 Oct 31st. I'm very concerned for our birds and am lost as to what to do or if something else is at play here. I need to get these guys better!!! Please offer any advice as to what could be going on here and how I can help them!

 

[luvmybirdz]

I also have Ivermec injectable that I used to treat the goats...not sure if this is any good or can be used for the ckns. Just wanted to add that in case it was good for treatment.

 

[luvmybirdz]

Any help would be appreciated! I just don't know what I'm dealing with or how to fix this! I have another roo (younger) that is far too light and having issues today. He's separated and getting some special treatment now.

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

http://extension.unh.edu/resources/files/resource000811_rep844.pdf

http://healthybirds.umd.edu/Disease/Deworming Birds.pdf

These two links might help. Since you already have a dialog going with your vet, I would get their advice as well.

But here is the scoop:
Wazine is not approved for egglayers, but is the only approved poultry dewormer.

Wazine only kills large roundworms.

There are other medications out there that some people use OFF-LABEL for poultry. If you sell eggs or meat, this is an issue.

The chart included (2nd link) may be helpful.

Always toss eggs for at least a couple of weeks according to what I have read here on BYC when using worming medications. It is important to research carefully when you go off-label. See the first link too if you would.

Some vets will do a fecal float test for worms/coccidia for a small fee, and this can be very helpful to determine which worm it is, if any. False negatives are possible for the worm test on the poo.

Bottom line: if you have another type of worm other than large roundworms they weren't even touched by the Wazine.

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Scrambled eggs are good for chickens to boost their nutrition.

If they are already having diarrhea, I'd not do yogurt as I have read on BYC that can go right through them.

As far as the rooster having problems standing, I'd consider that it may be another problem altogether. There are several conditions that cause lameness. Vitamin Deficiencies, Mareks, Botulism, etc. (I am sure there are others I have forgotten to mention.)

If you search for "poultry lameness" on google it may be helpful. However, I would also be concerned about the poor feather condition.

Let me mention that mites can live in the coop at night (the red mite) and feed only at night, hiding in the cracks of the coop during the day. SO if you never spray your coops out then it is possible that you have red mites...if you go out at night and look under the roosts you might be able to tell- don't know because I haven't dealt with that one.

When my chickens have mites I never see them on the chicken- they bite me when I hold them though, and get poor feather condition. There is a depluming mite as well.

I like permethrin dust for the birds and permethrin spray (also I use poultry protector at times). I dust my birds and spray the coops every 4 months. I repeat in 7 days to kill hatching eggs.

For mites: here is a nice page:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig140

The other thing to consider is that if your goats brought in another type of coccidia on their feet or in their poo (I am not sure they get sick from the same ones that poultry do though) that your poultry weren't immune to there could be an element of coccidiosis to this. A poo sample would tell you that.
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/coccidiosis2011.html
http://www.clemson.edu/public/lph/ahp/disease_links/images/coccidia.pdf

 

[cafarmgirl]

I would deworm them right away with something much more effective then Wazine. I use Valbazen or Strongid liquid goat dewormer. The dose is .5 ml for standard size birds and .25ml for bantams. Do a repeat in 10 days to catch anything that hatched in the meantime.

 

[luvmybirdz]

The lameness I believe is an issue due to whatever is going on. Not the main issue. My roo should weigh at least 9 lb and was easily half that. He's lost so much weight! I'm seeing that in all the birds. The diarrhea is improved once I added all my worming methods. The treatment for mites done in the summer was w/seven dust and I also dusted the coop well (after a complete clean out of the coop...I use deep litter method and felt it was the time to do that for a fresh start a a good dusting). When I treated them before I would see a few 'bugs' on them so that's what clued me in to the issue. In checking a few this afternoon, I saw 1 'bug' on 1 bird. I planned to add re-dusting them to my treatment plan so I can cover all bases here. I'll do another complete coop clean out as well. As I said, we were getting lots of eggs and things just went south when the goats came in. I get NO eggs now, so there's no issue w/meds and having to toss eggs. We've been w/out eggs for a good while now. Again, I just assumed it was stress from the goats, then molting, but their deterioration tells me more is wrong. Oh, and the vet doesn't deal w/ckns at all. She specializes in goats so that's why we saw her. I only asked her about the Wazine due to the fact that the goats share the same water and I didn't know if it could hurt them.

Thank you all for the links! I'll check into them all and see if anything fits. I am considering a stool test now that they have more normal stools and I can collect a sample. My kids are really worried as am I. My husband is beyond frustrated at the lack of laying and paying to feed non producing animals. Esp w/feed prices on the rise! Several of these birds are 'pets' and I really need to get it fixed. Having my eggs back would be super nice too!

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

The lameness I believe is an issue due to whatever is going on. Not the main issue. My roo should weigh at least 9 lb and was easily half that. He's lost so much weight! I'm seeing that in all the birds. The diarrhea is improved once I added all my worming methods. The treatment for mites done in the summer was w/seven dust and I also dusted the coop well (after a complete clean out of the coop...I use deep litter method and felt it was the time to do that for a fresh start a a good dusting). When I treated them before I would see a few 'bugs' on them so that's what clued me in to the issue. In checking a few this afternoon, I saw 1 'bug' on 1 bird. I planned to add re-dusting them to my treatment plan so I can cover all bases here. I'll do another complete coop clean out as well. As I said, we were getting lots of eggs and things just went south when the goats came in. I get NO eggs now, so there's no issue w/meds and having to toss eggs. We've been w/out eggs for a good while now. Again, I just assumed it was stress from the goats, then molting, but their deterioration tells me more is wrong. Oh, and the vet doesn't deal w/ckns at all. She specializes in goats so that's why we saw her. I only asked her about the Wazine due to the fact that the goats share the same water and I didn't know if it could hurt them.

Thank you all for the links! I'll check into them all and see if anything fits. I am considering a stool test now that they have more normal stools and I can collect a sample. My kids are really worried as am I. My husband is beyond frustrated at the lack of laying and paying to feed non producing animals. Esp w/feed prices on the rise! Several of these birds are 'pets' and I really need to get it fixed. Having my eggs back would be super nice too!

Yeah I'd take a poo sample in for coccidia/worm check. If positive simple to treat.

 

[casportpony]

Look up worming medications on at this site:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/72234998/Plumb-s-Veterinary-Drug-Handbook-Sixth-Edition#page=392

 

[casportpony]

Yeah I'd take a poo sample in for coccidia/worm check. If positive simple to treat.

But those are often false negatives.