Very watery poop and now refuses food during crop treatment

[OKhobbit]

Current problem: One of my RIRs started a hard molt mid-December. She had a mild molt same time last year, which was her first. They will be 2 years old early March. A week ago I noticed she was dropping weight and when I gave them a treat, I noticed she was eating only a small amount and turned away. For about three days before that I gave them cooked rice in the evening to see if her watery poop would get better and it did not help. I brought her inside. I had previously noticed that the coop was going through a LOT of pine shavings that in many areas were so soaked. I thought the watery poops were caused by the molt, but it is a LOT of water. And I'd noticed their waterers were drawing down faster than normal, which I learned is a symptom of impacted crop.

Doing an exam, I felt that her crop was very, very full, so I did research about impacted, slow, doughy, sour crops. I didn't smell any sour smells, so started the impacted crop treatment, putting coconut oil (temperature checked) down with a small syringe (no needle) twice a day and massaging many, many times a day. (Learning more about chickens, I have quite a first aid kit now!) It is harder on her with so many pin feathers, but we are as gentle as possible.

It was of course a long holiday weekend, we have no avian vets nearby. Our local vet told me recently he would do a fecal float test for me, so when he returned to his practice this last Wednesday, I took a sample in. He didn't call, so on Thursday I called and spoke with him and he told me he MAY have seen one egg in the roundworm family. He did not see coccidiosis. I wanted the results before treating which I believe has turned into sour crop now (still doesn't smell bad) but I started the miconazole 2% Wednesday evening. The coconut oil and massaging for several days did help clear out a lot of small feathers she'd eaten, some kind of grass (I think straw alfalfa that I use as bedding in their outside run) and whatever I managed to feed her that she would eat (water in her regular feed, cooked egg white (she will not eat the yolk!), cooked oatmeal. The instructions said to feed her greek yogurt and she absolutely refuses it. I've also been putting a tiny bit of Poultry Cell in her one cup of water, trying to give her any nutrients, which she will drink, but her zest for anything has now gone down, and I'm worried. I tried a scrambled egg this morning and she won't eat it. She would have gulfed it down before. She's also refusing the cooked oatmeal this morning.

As of this morning, she has now had four treatments of the miconazole. There was only one morning when her crop was soft and that was Tuesday morning before treating for sour crop. Every morning now her crop has the walnut in it which I believe is just yeast now. I can manipulate it and it softens quickly.

The volume of water going through her is a little less. I'm cleaning her carrier at least twice a day now to try to monitor if she's retaining any water. The puppy pads I'm using must be the absolute lowest quality and leak quite a bit. I supplement with folded paper towels in the areas where she poops and replace them when they get dirty.

Her eyes are good and clear, her comb and wattles are good color, maybe not quite as plump, and her legs are good. I can feel her breast bone now. Before all this started, she weighted 5 lbs 9 oz. Yesterday she weighted 4 lbs 14 oz. Her poop last night did look a brighter green so I'm concerned it is bile. This morning it looks like other stuff is coming out like tiny feathers since she is still full of pin feathers, but not bright green. I should add there has never been any blood in her poop.

I saw a cecal poop two days ago and I felt like things were starting to work again. She MAY have pendulous crop. When I feel the bottom it hangs over just a little (maybe 1/3 inch?) like when you cup your hand under your boob. Mine however hangs a LOT more! LOL.

I read not to give her her regular food. When I did a few days ago out of desperation, it had water in it and slightly microwave warmed. She ate some, but turned up her nose after just a little bit. Yesterday I gave her oyster shell calcium freely and she ate some of it. I thought maybe she was getting really nutritionally unbalanced and maybe, maybe this would help her system.

Today I'm supposed to get the baby bird feeder syringes with the long tube I ordered from Amazon. I think I may need to force feed her the greek yogurt since it may help? I read one article about making her vomit, but I'm not comfortable with that. She's already stressed enough. And I can manipulate the dough ball. By late morning it is feeling pretty liquidy in her crop.

A few weeks ago I bought "The Chicken Health Handbook" by Gail Damerow and took it to the vet to help him ID the sample. This book has been very helpful, but sometimes there is so much information it is confusing.

Have I missed anything here? Is there more I can do? Any suggestions on feeding her what she will eat? Should I force feed her (with the baby bird syringe kit) the greek yogurt? It is a lot going down into the crop at once, but I'm willing to try. Going into town this afternoon so if I need to buy anything for her there, I will. I think she's definitely not getting enough calories.

Evening update: I gave in and let her eat her regular crumble which she is now devouring. Will see what happens with the yeast. Will keep on doing the miconazole treatment. Any advice is appreciated.

Thank you!!!

 

[Stravager]

Can you post pictures of the chicken?
I would avoid making a chicken vomit - they can aspirate and die very easily from it. And tubing a chicken might also be difficult..... I don't know too much about that, but if you accidentally insert into the wrong spot you will have a dead bird.
If she's eating regular food keep monitoring her crop. If you have a pendulous crop you might need a chicken bra.
@Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock maybe have more suggestions?

 

[Eggcessive]

I don’t force feed chickens at all. She may not be hungry if her crop is not emptying well. She does need water, and some electrolytes and vitamins in it can help if she is not eating. When her crop felt like a walnut in the morning, was it hard or doughy? The crop should be empty first thing in morning before she eats or drinks. Then it should fill up during the day while she eats. If her crop feels full and hard or doughy in the morning, offer some small chipmunks of chilled coconut oil to peck, 1 to 2 tsp. Then massage her crop in a downward motion several times a day. Do not tip her forward or hold upside down or she can choke to death. Recheck her crop each morning. Chickens can live some time drinking water only, so don’t worry about her eating normally until her crop is working well. I would not feed anything except very thin watery chicken feed and scrambled egg bits. Here is a good article about crops:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

 

[Birdsonghill]

I stopped putting garden refuse into the run that has not been dried and shredded to small pieces years ago due to birds getting impacted crops and other problems. eating the stuff. Free ranging they do fine but when confined in the run they seem to over eat certain items and get predisposed to crop issues. I put only small amounts of green stuff in at a time as treats. I could go years without an issue then have issues several years running when throwing lots of fresh green materials in the run. That is why I am cautious about chicken composting in the run. I know a lot of people seem to have no problems with that but I have experienced the problems more than a couple times. Maybe some things have too much long fibrous and tough "strings" that mat up in the crop. I put dry and shredded plant materials mostly in the run for chicken "composting". Having 10 birds or more with compacted crop at one time is bad! That has happened to me years ago while piling in green garden stuff for chicken composting! As I mentioned, birds free ranging all the time have never had this problem for me.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I agree, I'd give her chilled coconut oil 2X a day. Continue with the Miconazole.

If the crop is not fluid filled anymore in the mornings and you're feeling something doughy, then massage when you give the coconut oil.
If you can't get it to go down in a couple of more days, then give her 1 stool softener, just pop the tab into her beak and let her swallow it. See if that helps push material on out.

Does she have any grit available? If not, then I would put a few pieces in her cage (she's separated from the flock/was she being picked on?).

I offer normal feed, wet or dry to any bird that is not well, even ones with crop symptoms. They do need to eat something if possible. They generally will self regulate. Provide water always during waking hours.
Other enticements can be watery type food like small mashed pieces of watermelon or tomato. Cooked egg is fine to give. I'm not a fan of sticky oatmeal, but some birds like it. If giving cooked rice, stir in a little buttermilk, this is often well accepted.

You're noticing her eating feathers? If so, then get extra protein into her - meat, fish, eggs. If she's not keen on eggs, then offer some sardines or mackerel. Beef liver or ground hamburger (cooked).

This article will help walk you through treatment. These are basically the only methods I use anymore. I know there's a LOT of information about treating crop problems and it can get confusing as to what to do.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

 

[OKhobbit]

I don’t force feed chickens at all. She may not be hungry if her crop is not emptying well. She does need water, and some electrolytes and vitamins in it can help if she is not eating. When her crop felt like a walnut in the morning, was it hard or doughy? The crop should be empty first thing in morning before she eats or drinks. Then it should fill up during the day while she eats. If her crop feels full and hard or doughy in the morning, offer some small chipmunks of chilled coconut oil to peck, 1 to 2 tsp. Then massage her crop in a downward motion several times a day. Do not tip her forward or hold upside down or she can choke to death. Recheck her crop each morning. Chickens can live some time drinking water only, so don’t worry about her eating normally until her crop is working well. I would not feed anything except very thin watery chicken feed and scrambled egg bits. Here is a good article about crops:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

Since she is refusing the greek yogurt I just received the chicken probiotics/prebiotics yesterday. I have the Rooster Booster electrolytes, etc but since I was always giving it in their water I was advised by someone here not to do that. So only in stress times do I put that in their water now. She is getting a very small amount of Poultry Cell in her water. The massive water in her poop seems to be slowing, thankfully.
For the crop in the morning, it is definitely getting smaller each day and is doughy, since it doesn't take much massaging to loosen it up. I tried the small chunks of coconut oil and it was kind of a disaster, so that's when I went to the syringe method. I'm confident doing that now. I am NOT at all confident in the vomiting thing and I've read it is also bad to hold them upside down.
Thank you for your help. I just want to do the best for her.

 

[OKhobbit]

I stopped putting garden refuse into the run that has not been dried and shredded to small pieces years ago due to birds getting impacted crops and other problems. eating the stuff. Free ranging they do fine but when confined in the run they seem to over eat certain items and get predisposed to crop issues. I put only small amounts of green stuff in at a time as treats. I could go years without an issue then have issues several years running when throwing lots of fresh green materials in the run. That is why I am cautious about chicken composting in the run. I know a lot of people seem to have no problems with that but I have experienced the problems more than a couple times. Maybe some things have too much long fibrous and tough "strings" that mat up in the crop. I put dry and shredded plant materials mostly in the run for chicken "composting". Having 10 birds or more with compacted crop at one time is bad! That has happened to me years ago while piling in green garden stuff for chicken composting! As I mentioned, birds free ranging all the time have never had this problem for me.

I suspected the alfalfa when I saw the little bits of it in her poops when the obstruction, if that's what it is, was clearing. But she also had little feathers in there as well. After the tapeworm thing in September, I put concrete patio squares in their outdoor coop/run to try to control what they eat, but they didn't have anything to scratch so that's when the alfalfa went in there. I will remove it. They have pine shavings in their regular coop and when I put fresh in, they start scratching and eating little pieces. Total free ranging isn't possible where we are. Too many predators. Thank you very much for your help.

 

[OKhobbit]

I agree, I'd give her chilled coconut oil 2X a day. Continue with the Miconazole.

If the crop is not fluid filled anymore in the mornings and you're feeling something doughy, then massage when you give the coconut oil.
If you can't get it to go down in a couple of more days, then give her 1 stool softener, just pop the tab into her beak and let her swallow it. See if that helps push material on out.

Does she have any grit available? If not, then I would put a few pieces in her cage (she's separated from the flock/was she being picked on?).

I offer normal feed, wet or dry to any bird that is not well, even ones with crop symptoms. They do need to eat something if possible. They generally will self regulate. Provide water always during waking hours.
Other enticements can be watery type food like small mashed pieces of watermelon or tomato. Cooked egg is fine to give. I'm not a fan of sticky oatmeal, but some birds like it. If giving cooked rice, stir in a little buttermilk, this is often well accepted.

You're noticing her eating feathers? If so, then get extra protein into her - meat, fish, eggs. If she's not keen on eggs, then offer some sardines or mackerel. Beef liver or ground hamburger (cooked).

This article will help walk you through treatment. These are basically the only methods I use anymore. I know there's a LOT of information about treating crop problems and it can get confusing as to what to do.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

I stopped the coconut oil because she is processing what she eats. What I feel in the mornings is doughy and becomes even softer with massage after I've syringed the miconazole in there. Do I also need to still give the coconut oil? Is that to move the yeast through the system better?

I read before about just giving the liquid in the stool softener. It would be great if she would just swallow the little red pill. I will try. Especially if it will help pass the yeast.

Unfortunately, she only wants egg whites. I scrambled an egg for her yesterday, tried hard boiled egg before, and if it's yellow, it's apparently a no go. Has not stopped her in the past to be an egg eater in the coop.

I gave her rice, trying to get the watery diarrhea under control and at that earlier point it didn't work. Will try again.

She does eat grit and oyster shell calcium. I will try the meats. I'd read before if they eat feathers they need protein. I guess the molt had really strained her system, so no wonder she's done that.

I've read both the articles you referenced and I've come to realize they might not work perfectly for all chickens. I've tried to take all the info and apply it, but some of it is not thorough enough and I'm trying to use the limited experience and instincts I have.

Thank you so very much. Your advice will be used with lots of hope and expectation. And prayers.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Are you seeing any more tapeworm proglottids in the poop?

You can give the coconut oil if you wish, I've found mine love the taste of it, they will eat the small chunks if I freeze it and break it up. Coconut oil has some anti-fungal properties, so I usually give it along with the Miconazole but if she's not taking it well, then omit the oil and see how it goes.

Yes! Just get a hold of her, pull the wattles down, pop that stool softener pill into her beak and let her swallow it. She may be a pill shooter who knows, I had a hen that could really shoot a pill across the yard, but I eventually won! I was more determined than she was.

Just keep working with her. Crop problems can take a good while to correct. Sounds like she's finally starting to expel the materials she's been eating, so hopefully this will resolve soon.

 

[OKhobbit]

Are you seeing any more tapeworm proglottids in the poop?

You can give the coconut oil if you wish, I've found mine love the taste of it, they will eat the small chunks if I freeze it and break it up. Coconut oil has some anti-fungal properties, so I usually give it along with the Miconazole but if she's not taking it well, then omit the oil and see how it goes.

Yes! Just get a hold of her, pull the wattles down, pop that stool softener pill into her beak and let her swallow it. She may be a pill shooter who knows, I had a hen that could really shoot a pill across the yard, but I eventually won! I was more determined than she was.

Just keep working with her. Crop problems can take a good while to correct. Sounds like she's finally starting to expel the materials she's been eating, so hopefully this will resolve soon.

No more tapeworms. The vet thought he MIGHT see one roundworm egg. I will keep an eye out until spring and if I suspect he was right then I will worm both of them then. She's going through a lot....trying not to add too much to her stress more than I have to. After the tapeworm med a few months ago, I never saw pieces in their poops so I assumed the medicine worked pretty darn fast. I did the two treatments 10 days apart. Rice and buttermilk cleared up the runny stools quickly, but this girl's runs are waaayyy more watery. So far this morning, there's less water coming out, so I'm hopeful she's retaining what she needs.

Good to know about the coconut oil properties.

She did eat her regular crumble this morning and has had a lot of water. At least she has some appetite which relieves my panic. I do know now that she is a PICKY EATER!

She's in her carrier in the living room watching me take down decorations. She seems to be really into watching tv. I thought she needed a little activity to help any boredom in the laundry room.

Thank you very much for your help! BackYardChickens is my go to for the tough problems.