Viable treatment for Marek's Disease.

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I have been giving Chinese Skullcap to my Marek’s positive flock for a couple of months and they seem to be doing well. I was very worried about my two older hens but they are doing much better now. I add some to their feed maybe once a week. I also made a tincture for acute illness but haven’t needed to use it yet. At this point I will try anything to help them. Adding an herb is easy. They all seem happy and healthy despite this 105° weather.

Thank you. I'm having positive results as well. Unfortunately, we're the heat is beginning to have effect on my older girls. 2 died of acidosis induced pneumonia sick with it. This heat is a literal killer.

Update: I have multiple birds having respiratory issues now.

I don't think it's the heat. I'm fairly sure I'm fighting an outbreak of CRD.

I'm also very concerned by the number of issues arising. I keep my girls in healthy conditions and it's a lot of work. I'm wondering if adjoining properties with flocks could be spreading health issues to mine. I already noticed that a neighbor who had 8-9 chooks no longer has them and the property behind me has reduced numbers.

 

[Coppy]

Thank you for sharing all the valuable information on treatmentfor Marek's.
I have a Marek's infected roo and made the 20 'skullcap + egg white' balls for him following your recipe.

I give him 2 balls a day. Do they stay fresh for 10 days as long as I keep them in the fridge? Or should I freeze them ?

Thank you

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Thank you for sharing all the valuable information on treatmentfor Marek's.
I have a Marek's infected roo and made the 20 'skullcap + egg white' balls for him following your recipe.

I give him 2 balls a day. Do they stay fresh for 10 days as long as I keep them in the fridge? Or should I freeze them ?

Thank you

Freeze.

They will mildew in 4-5 days.

Does he have symptoms or just the virus? 80% of ALL fowl carry the virus. Most live normal lives until the virus becomes activated. Usually illness or stress.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Thank you for sharing all the valuable information on treatmentfor Marek's.
I have a Marek's infected roo and made the 20 'skullcap + egg white' balls for him following your recipe.

I give him 2 balls a day. Do they stay fresh for 10 days as long as I keep them in the fridge? Or should I freeze them ?

Thank you

After the 10 days, assess progress. I've had a few that required longer treatment. 1 that responded to treatment but sustained too much damage and passed.

Also, watch for secondary infections. Once you have the viral infection under control, it was easy to mistake a bacterial infection as I did. I lost one because I didn’t see the difference.

Once he makes a full recovery, make sure to maintain a maintenance dose in his food. I messed up and was just putting it in the layer feed. Roosters eat mainly scratch. Fortunately I figured it out pretty quick. I now have a Silkie rooster for my future Marek's resistant flock. I will have my first generation next spring.

 

[Swt T of chickadees]

Be careful about believing everything you read here on BYC (and on the internet in general). A lot of misinformation out there intentionally or not. Unless you consider frequently preventing death "nothing useful" that statement about the Marek's vaccine is just plain false. The vaccine prepares the body's immune system so it can fight the virus quickly when exposed thereby preventing the development of the disease. No, the vaccine is not perfect, because there are many strains and virus is always changing, but it's a lot better than nothing.

Also if your birds are "fine one day, dead the next" that is likely due to another disease like fatty liver syndrome, which does cause sudden death, rather than Marek's.

Have you battled Mareks in your flock? We would not have Marek’s if it were for vaccinated chickens that I purchased after the breeder assured me they were unvaccinated. Contrary to recent online literature that has been either been altered in recent days or manipulated to all state the same thing.
If one is to understand the TRUTH about Any Information, then one best gave done their own science project so they can test for themselves what is true or not.
We have rode this ride out fully since we were forced into such a situation after my unvaccinated chicks contracted the disease from vaccinated ones.
I’ve done extensive research as to when this virus was discovered(1907), when it was isolated, when the first vaccine was invented, and when the mad scientists recreated and altered it. The Veterinarians simply repeat what they’ve too have been taught and sadly, many leaders who create the vaccines have nefariously altered ‘some’, but specifically Marek’s…
As any parent should, we all have an obligation to not blindly trust a system, but to truly understand a system for which we have ALL been conditioned to trust (me included) until one recognizes ‘something does not add up’.

Respectfully speaking, many of us who have encountered Marek’s in our flock, if we are being honest in reflection, it was contracted when vaccinated birds shed onto unvaccinated birds. Contrary to what the literature claims as the same literature literally words it all into one big circle by saying their “Live” vaccine does not shed onto an unvaccinated bird yet in the same context also claim how their leaky vaccine will NOT protect one’s chicken from getting the disease, from passing the disease, or prevent a bird from dying from the disease.

In reality, IF folks have the two status’ mixed, and the literature is authentic, then the two can cohabitate without consequence. Yet, that is not the case. You WILL see the effects to be greater as ones unvaccinated birds WILL show symptom's that will ultimately spread to most birds within one’s individual flock.

Furthermore, the literature also states most all flocks can determine they already have Marek’s, yet, since it was discovered in 1907 and the FIRST vaccine created wasn’t until “1970”, that clearly wasn’t competent enough they had to remake it and patent approved in 2009, chicken’s across the globe would already be extinct according the claims of how contagious the literature proposes the disease to be. Instead, they continue to claim all flicks have it.

Test the theories yourself if you dare. But NO birds will go unscathed if all you ever Have in your flock is vaccinated birds. You Will forever test positive for Mareks disease simply because you have Infected your own chickens with the disease upon vaccination and folks Will still see sudden death and or paralysis… yet the makers of the vaccines have dismissed ALL responsibility of their own vaccine that clearly cannot be perfected to eradicate such a disease after 116 years of such a threat.

Do the math as it is mathematically impossible this disease was such a threat until they remade vaccines that began circulating in 2009 when the patent was approved and folks bought into such threats because they trusted a system rather than research for themselves where the facts don’t make sense.
This isn’t said to disrespect any honest keeping chicken folks who have every heart to do what they believe is best for their flock… it’s all any of us have wanted to do. But we should ALL want to hold the systems that we have trusted, accountable for the drugs they claim are trustworthy, when in reality, they are not.

I do not nor would ever wish this disease on anyone, ever. But since I am witnessing first hand how we contracted it and the great lengths we have financially taken to stop the spread, I assure you, the literature does not add up. I merely hope to help others be aware of the findings found in their documentation that has not been altered in recent days.

Blessings to all!

 

[RoyalChick]

I for one would be grateful if we could keep this thread focused on the original intent which is about using Skullcap as a treatment for Marek's. This is very interesting to a number of us with Marek's in our flocks and it is helpful to learn how it is working out, dosing etc.

There are plenty of other threads to debate the pros and cons of the various Marek's vaccines available. Almost by definition most people interested in this thread are past that stage and have Marek's established in their flock so maybe chat about vaccines elsewhere or start a separate thread.

I am trying maintenance of my healthy birds with Skullcap and am keen to learn from others experience of that and I am very grateful to @Mason Farm and Ranch for starting this thread and documenting their progress.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

Have you battled Mareks in your flock? We would not have Marek’s if it were for vaccinated chickens that I purchased after the breeder assured me they were unvaccinated. Contrary to recent online literature that has been either been altered in recent days or manipulated to all state the same thing.
If one is to understand the TRUTH about Any Information, then one best gave done their own science project so they can test for themselves what is true or not.
We have rode this ride out fully since we were forced into such a situation after my unvaccinated chicks contracted the disease from vaccinated ones.
I’ve done extensive research as to when this virus was discovered(1907), when it was isolated, when the first vaccine was invented, and when the mad scientists recreated and altered it. The Veterinarians simply repeat what they’ve too have been taught and sadly, many leaders who create the vaccines have nefariously altered ‘some’, but specifically Marek’s…
As any parent should, we all have an obligation to not blindly trust a system, but to truly understand a system for which we have ALL been conditioned to trust (me included) until one recognizes ‘something does not add up’.

Respectfully speaking, many of us who have encountered Marek’s in our flock, if we are being honest in reflection, it was contracted when vaccinated birds shed onto unvaccinated birds. Contrary to what the literature claims as the same literature literally words it all into one big circle by saying their “Live” vaccine does not shed onto an unvaccinated bird yet in the same context also claim how their leaky vaccine will NOT protect one’s chicken from getting the disease, from passing the disease, or prevent a bird from dying from the disease.

In reality, IF folks have the two status’ mixed, and the literature is authentic, then the two can cohabitate without consequence. Yet, that is not the case. You WILL see the effects to be greater as ones unvaccinated birds WILL show symptom's that will ultimately spread to most birds within one’s individual flock.

Furthermore, the literature also states most all flocks can determine they already have Marek’s, yet, since it was discovered in 1907 and the FIRST vaccine created wasn’t until “1970”, that clearly wasn’t competent enough they had to remake it and patent approved in 2009, chicken’s across the globe would already be extinct according the claims of how contagious the literature proposes the disease to be. Instead, they continue to claim all flicks have it.

Test the theories yourself if you dare. But NO birds will go unscathed if all you ever Have in your flock is vaccinated birds. You Will forever test positive for Mareks disease simply because you have Infected your own chickens with the disease upon vaccination and folks Will still see sudden death and or paralysis… yet the makers of the vaccines have dismissed ALL responsibility of their own vaccine that clearly cannot be perfected to eradicate such a disease after 116 years of such a threat.

Do the math as it is mathematically impossible this disease was such a threat until they remade vaccines that began circulating in 2009 when the patent was approved and folks bought into such threats because they trusted a system rather than research for themselves where the facts don’t make sense.
This isn’t said to disrespect any honest keeping chicken folks who have every heart to do what they believe is best for their flock… it’s all any of us have wanted to do. But we should ALL want to hold the systems that we have trusted, accountable for the drugs they claim are trustworthy, when in reality, they are not.

I do not nor would ever wish this disease on anyone, ever. But since I am witnessing first hand how we contracted it and the great lengths we have financially taken to stop the spread, I assure you, the literature does not add up. I merely hope to help others be aware of the findings found in their documentation that has not been altered in recent days.

Blessings to all!

I summed all of this up in one short paragraph in my original post. If you don't mind, this thread is ONLY for the use of Chinese Skullcap in preventing deaths from Marek’s. There's already enough to read through with the progress updates, and reports of successes or failures.

It's us doing our own thing/group effort.

 

[Chicalina]

OP, I would be really interested to learn how you diagnose the liver conditions in live chickens that you mention.

I've been reading this thread with interest. It's good to learn from other people's experiences and knowledge.

I've also used milk thistle for ascites. Not sure if it was helpful or not as I was also draining the fluid, but my affected chicken lived for years with the condition.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

OP, I would be really interested to learn how you diagnose the liver conditions in live chickens that you mention.

I've been reading this thread with interest. It's good to learn from other people's experiences and knowledge.

I've also used milk thistle for ascites. Not sure if it was helpful or not as I was also draining the fluid, but my affected chicken lived for years with the condition.

I don't think I can put it in words. But I'll give it a shot. And it's not perfect, but sometimes it's unmistakable.

Take a look at an anatomy chart of a chicken. You can see the placement and shape of the liver. If the chicken is facing away from you, the liver can be palpable on the right side. The gizzard on the left. The gizzard is more roundish and always firm, sometimes hard. The liver is elongated and should not be firm. You shouldn't be able to detect it. However, if you feel a long mass, something is wrong. It does have 2 lobes, so it may feel like two tubular masses that join at some point. If the mass gets really hard, the liver is severely inflamed. If it gets hard and you feel bumps/lumps/nodules on it, your chook likely has tumors.

In any if these situations, liver functions are hampered.

The location on the chicken to look (feel) is the abdominal between the ribcage and keel bone, somewhat closer to the point where they join. If you can feel it, you'll know. If you don't feel anything other than soft and squishy innards... the liver is probably not the issue.

I have confirmed this with autopsy after a hen died from what I assumed was an intestinal obstruction. It turned out, the hard mass I had been feeling was her liver and I was treating for the wrong ailment. A secondary confirmation came when Lucy, who had a fatty liver already, developed Marek's and her liver went from firmer than it should be to rock hard with nodules. She developed small tumors in her liver and after recovering from Marek's, she began declining rapidly when her liver failed and her GI tract shut down. Milk Thistle wasn't making it out of her crop and there is no injectable form.

That's what I know and how I learned it. Hope it helps.

As for Milk Thistle for ascites. Ascites is a symptom of organ failure. So, if the root cause is the liver or pancreas, the Milk Thistle increases function, which would stop the fluid build-up and the chook would reabsorb the excess fluid. Milk Thistle is good for the heart as well, but it's not great for heart failure. You might try Hawthorne for the heart. My go to is a combination of Milk Thistle, Hawthorne and Nettle Leaf (Lungs) to cover all the bases. A pinch of Ashwagonda to relieve stress.

But if the ascites is severe and life threatening... Furosemide (Lasix), you can get it from your vet. I keep it on hand, It's cheap and buys you time to find the root cause.

To clarify, Ascites is a symptom of organ failure. Organ failure is a symptom as well. Organ failure can be caused by infections of bacterial, viral or a parasitic nature. But treatment of the symptoms buys time to find the root cause overall.

 

[Mason Farm and Ranch]

I for one would be grateful if we could keep this thread focused on the original intent which is about using Skullcap as a treatment for Marek's. This is very interesting to a number of us with Marek's in our flocks and it is helpful to learn how it is working out, dosing etc.

There are plenty of other threads to debate the pros and cons of the various Marek's vaccines available. Almost by definition most people interested in this thread are past that stage and have Marek's established in their flock so maybe chat about vaccines elsewhere or start a separate thread.

I am trying maintenance of my healthy birds with Skullcap and am keen to learn from others experience of that and I am very grateful to @Mason Farm and Ranch for starting this thread and documenting their progress.

Thank you.

Since knowledge is power and results, whether good or ...not so much... add to that knowledge, I'd REALLY like to encourage anyone giving Chinese Skullcap a shot to report their results in an ongoing manner.

Other people are starting to report their experiences and they are all good. But I would like to encourage them to report unsuccessful or benign results as well. Even the clinical studies only reported an 80% success rate, so I'm sure that someone other than myself has had failures.

Additionally, knowing what you used for symptom support, if anything, would also be useful in developing a standard protocol that could be used universally and the expectations for recovery time could be documented.

Additionally, someone who makes herbal treatments could use the information to create a compounded treatment that could be purchased reliability and kept on hand.

The most hopeful thing I have is that after enough birds recover from Marek's and can still breed, we could breed Marek's resistant stock and the Marek's reign of terror would end. But that's a few years away as you need at least 3 generations of Marek's recovered birds to insure resistant stock. Or at least that's what they're saying in the research I'm reading.