Virulent Newcastle Disease or VND, Lots of Anguish, Little Solutions Offered

[HenOnAJuneBug]

From what I'm hearing, there needs to be more regulation and better training on how to humanely kill birds in mandatory cull areas.

From what I'm reading the responsibility for this outbreak lies in the cock fighting community. Sounds like they need to come down hard on that illegality.

 

[Al Gerhart]

I'm one of those dreaded soft-hearted owners of pet chickens. I'm also of the belief that all sentient creatures deserve the right to live. I also live in California (albeit the Northern half of the state). I have tremendous compassion for the chickens, backyard or commercial, and their owners. And I see your point. You might try to see ours. I love my birds, and the main reason I have them is because I am not a fan of animal treatment in many commercial operations. Now I know where my eggs come from, and my chickens have the best possible life I can give them in my semi-rural yard.

I'm also a Libertarian who is currently registered Republican (for access to the vote during Primaries). So there you go. Compassion and conservatism can coexist!

Oh, you are not dreaded, forgive me if I left that impression. But that belief that all creatures deserve to live, does that not include other flocks outside the hot zone? All I am saying is that sometimes to be kind you must at times be cruel. Check out the book Thick Face, Black Heart to get my drift. The woman that wrote that book used the example of a surgeon before modern anesthesia. The kindest surgeon was a brutal, get it done fast kind of person.

Bottom line, in a truly horrible situation sometimes it takes truly horrible actions. But prevention of possible carriers getting to feed and water and some bio security should be all of our responsibility, that is the point that I was trying to make and failed at apparently. And some is better than none. Past that, we all have to accept what needs to be done. And saying that, I am not quite sure I am buying the expert's statements on how this is being spread because that is incongruent with killing all the backyard flocks.

 

[Al Gerhart]

But what the authorities said in the SOB video was that they were there not in response to test results of her birds but in response to the fact that she was located 1/2 mile from a contaminated and depopulated commercial operation in one direction and 1/4 mile from an uncontaminated commercial operation in another. They were trying to secure the large uncontaminated flock.

Thanks for bringing that up, I had read that. But given their hypothesis of clothing/shoes/equipment as the vector, are they saying that chicken fighting poultry workers possibly of Hispanic descent had visited those backyard flocks? Now air borne or pest/vermin borne carriers make sense at those distances and would explain the need to kill the birds. Let's hope it isn't flies. Not sure I could dream up a fly proof feeder, would probably be easier to come up with a laser carrying shark first.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Even free range not just an outside run where the wild birds would actually be drawn to. I understand your point but keeping birds totally locked up and not allowed to run around is a much more recent idea for keeping chickens safe regardless of quality of life. To each their own.

You know, free range would absolutely be safer in the long run by exposing the birds to more immune system exercise and instead of trying to eliminate newcastle disease just let natural selection take its course and leave birds more immune to the disease like the wild birds seem to be, most of the time at least. The problem of course would be that the resulting birds would be like wild birds, carriers but little affected by the disease. And of course the mortality of flocks would be high. You and I could handle that, a commercial flock, not so much. And that is the other point I was trying to make: solve our own problems and self police before we lose the right to have backyard chickens.

 

[IamRainey]

Thanks for bringing that up, I had read that. But given their hypothesis of clothing/shoes/equipment as the vector, are they saying that chicken fighting poultry workers possibly of Hispanic descent had visited those backyard flocks? Now air borne or pest/vermin borne carriers make sense at those distances and would explain the need to kill the birds. Let's hope it isn't flies. Not sure I could dream up a fly proof feeder, would probably be easier to come up with a laser carrying shark first.

Note that the only evidence I am speaking from IS the video. There is no point that I heard in the video at which any of the CA Ag workers or local law enforcement there to execute a court order say that "that chicken fighting poultry workers possibly of Hispanic descent had visited those backyard flocks". I don't know if anything of the sort entered into the order issued by CDFA or the information that any authorities attached to the request for the court order.

The only violation of the provisions of the quarantine that I heard one of the law enforcement refer to was the fact that her birds were unsecured. And I don't know what the basis for the court order was other than her physical proximity to the 2 large populations.

Does that even answer the question?????

 

[Al Gerhart]

Note that the only evidence I am speaking from IS the video. There is no point that I heard in the video at which any of the CA Ag workers or local law enforcement there to execute a court order say that "that chicken fighting poultry workers possibly of Hispanic descent had visited those backyard flocks". I don't know if anything of the sort entered into the order issued by CDFA or the information that any authorities attached to the request for the court order.

The only violation of the provisions of the quarantine that I heard one of the law enforcement refer to was the fact that her birds were unsecured. And I don't know what the basis for the court order was other than her physical proximity to the 2 large populations.

That is the point, no evidence or mention that these same hispanic workers visited her flock so how could there be a threat of disease transmitting through the workers? But we are mixing stories, some of the other flocks that have been put down were not unsecured. Did you see anything about only unsecured flocks being killed off? Or is it all flocks in a radius of the condemned flocks? I thought it was all flocks, first being tested, then killed without mention if they were diseased or not. Could be wrong.

 

[roosterhavoc]

You know, free range would absolutely be safer in the long run by exposing the birds to more immune system exercise and instead of trying to eliminate newcastle disease just let natural selection take its course and leave birds more immune to the disease like the wild birds seem to be, most of the time at least. The problem of course would be that the resulting birds would be like wild birds, carriers but little affected by the disease. And of course the mortality of flocks would be high. You and I could handle that, a commercial flock, not so much. And that is the other point I was trying to make: solve our own problems and self police before we lose the right to have backyard chickens.

Again I understand what your saying however “the right to have backyard chickens” is something that irks me. I live in an AG zone anyway and not a neighborhood but I still find it interesting how much the everyday people are affected by the commercial operations. I get it but technically it’s already happening. They’re killing birds so they don’t get the disease. They’re not going to keep going through this. Sooner or later you won’t be able to keep chickens in a backyard setting like that for fear of disease. Chickens have been around a long time in “backyard settings” and totally free range just loose. Guess what they’re still here. The new operation is the commercial conglomerate with a million birds in an area that used to have possibly a few hundred running loose. The backyard owner with 20 birds isn’t the problem no matter how they’re kept.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

I agree that is what the authorities are saying but I have doubts if it is true. If a human can bring it home from a feed store walking down the isle and putting a bag of feed in a cart then surely a fly or a wild bird eating or drinking out of an infected flock's coop can bring the disease. A fly spitting on chicken feed or scraps to eat or just walking around would do fine as a carrier. Wild birds can be carriers and/or infected without visible signs I have read

This was more true in 2002 than in 2018 as the strain has adapted. Providing quant/qual comparative data on how EFFECTIVELY this strain transmits via d/c vs different ways of indirect contact (fomites, other birds, etc.) is the responsibility of the government. The government is asserting its rights to search and seizure, and it is on the government to fully explain why with data, and if they don't have it, then to get it rather than sit on their ass until this happens again.

But, for the sake of argument, if it is clothing or shoes, wouldn't the backyard flocks be fairly "safe"? Commercial flocks are not getting their feed at the local feed store. If they are slaughtering uninfected backyard flocks it makes no sense unless there is a connection between the commercial flocks, backyard flocks, and chicken fighting chicken barn employees.

I don't see any plausible vector beyond contaminated poultry workers. Those farms aren't open-air, they aren't open to the public, so that'd leave one remaining vector.

 

[Al Gerhart]

Again I understand what your saying however “the right to have backyard chickens” is something that irks me. I live in an AG zone anyway and not a neighborhood but I still find it interesting how much the everyday people are affected by the commercial operations. I get it but technically it’s already happening. They’re killing birds so they don’t get the disease. They’re not going to keep going through this. Sooner or later you won’t be able to keep chickens in a backyard setting like that for fear of disease. Chickens have been around a long time in “backyard settings” and totally free range just loose. Guess what they’re still here. The new operation is the commercial conglomerate with a million birds in an area that used to have possibly a few hundred running loose. The backyard owner with 20 birds isn’t the problem no matter how they’re kept.

Again that is the point. They have lobbyists, you do not. There are no rights to anything unless people stand up for those rights and defend them or even establish the rights in the first place under law and actual practice. Your flock might not be the problem but the politicians would much rather piss off one thousand voters than lose a thousand dollar per district donor. Not saying I like it, I am saying it is the way of the world given the low participation in politics by the average joe and jill.

 

[Animalfisherwoman]

You could also feed them inside a coop while still letting the birds out. Also feed doesn’t need to be scattered all over the place. There’s many things someone can do to minimize the wild bird interaction with chickens besides keeping them locked in a cage.

That's what I do. But what Al is saying is also correct: If you had them in a roofed coop/run, of course there'd be less exposure to the environment, but as you say, it is impracticable.