Vitamin deficiencies

[farmerbrowne]

I done some reading and there's a lot of talk about vitamin A and Deficiencies. My question is what is the standard ui for both and if you think they are not getting enough what can you do to increase the amount they get

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hi,

My first question would be why aren't they getting enough? Are they being fed a formulated ration? Or is it being diminished too far with treats? Bullied away from feed, intestinal parasites, genetic absorption issues.. or what?

In other words, I would wanna know the root cause of a deficiency... other than just trying to make up for it.

If you think they aren't getting enough, I would think a vitamin supplement in the water would be an efficient way to increase it. But noting that NOTHING should be supplemented more than 10 days straight. So maybe once a week or something like that, would be good if you felt the need.

I personally think more things are blamed on vitamin deficit than are truly the result of it. With ALL formulated rations having the nutrients to meet the needs of our birds per very specific guidelines, their must be external conditions that add to the issue... if indeed that's what it is.

I know Metzer has a very detailed version of the ducks' nutrient needs with all the IU, that you are talking about. I haven't seen one like that for chickens yet though. Many of those things aren't included on the labels, but if you contact the feed company directly they can you provide you with their FULL analysis. Which won't tell you the recommended actual need for the bird like what you are actually asking here. But would at least tell you if you need be concerned about the availability of the nutrients once you do find that info.

Nutrition seems to be one of my sticking points in general and VERY much of interest to me. Excited to see what others say.

I keep poultry Nutri drench on hand as well as Oasis vita drops for small birds. I only supplement for shipped or new hatchlings and when getting ready to collect eggs for hatching. Beyond that my birds eat their ration, pasture, and no excess treats. I haven't YET in 8+ years and over 100+ birds actually seen a nutrient deficit. But I do know anything can happen at any time and in NO way am I above mishaps.

 

[farmerbrowne]

Yea but you see a lot of people mixing their feed on their own so they know what is ground or fed to their birds

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Yea but you see a lot of people mixing their feed on their own so they know what is ground or fed to their birds

Yep they think they are doing their birds a favor when in fact they may not be. I heard the road to hell was paved with good intentions and I totally know what that means now.

It is important to know your overall analysis if you are doing that. And I'm pretty sure there are specific supplements available to help those that do mix their own. If using grain or just veg based products... they even have amino acid supplement available since animal based amino acids are also important. The nutri drench does have some amino acids in it as well. But I do wonder if using those supplement type things.. do people REALLY know what is being fed to their birds? A lot of times, the words on the bags are exactly that.. the scientific name for whatever vitamin it may be.. and we just don't recognize it. Maybe even in a more "shelf stable" form.

Anyways, I do NOT mean to sound argumentative. People feeding their chooks non formulated rations... is probably what I would do too, if I thought I could do any better with MY resources available to me.

Curious to see how others are doing it and their long term results.

I see you are in Canada. It's amazing to see how different things are or aren't available in different locations. And how the regulations vary. Thank you for sharing your curiosity quest with me!

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Yea but you see a lot of people mixing their feed on their own so they know what is ground or fed to their birds

Yep they think they are doing their birds a favor when in fact they may not be. I heard the road to hell was paved with good intentions and I totally know what that means now.

It is important to know your overall analysis if you are doing that. And I'm pretty sure there are specific supplements available to help those that do mix their own. If using grain or just veg based products... they even have amino acid supplement available since animal based amino acids are also important. The nutri drench does have some amino acids in it as well. But I do wonder if using those supplement type things.. do people REALLY know what is being fed to their birds? A lot of times, the words on the bags are exactly that.. the scientific name for whatever vitamin it may be.. and we just don't recognize it. Maybe even in a more "shelf stable" form.

Anyways, I do NOT mean to sound argumentative. People feeding their chooks non formulated rations... is probably what I would do too, if I thought I could do any better with MY resources available to me.

Curious to see how others are doing it and their long term results.

I see you are in Canada. It's amazing to see how different things are or aren't available in different locations. And how the regulations vary. Thank you for sharing your curiosity quest with me!

 

[farmerbrowne]

I have also seen people on the other hand feed just grains and their chickens were the healthiest and live a long time.
On the other hand pre mixed feed chicken were sick and lots didn't live as long

 

[chickenreyna]

Woah. Each opinion varies. .each is own. Chickens have been here without our help a very long time ago they have not always been pets. I think alot of people add extra needs. Get a good feed with calcium like 18% all age flock feed nutrena feather fixer ok to use during molts & all year round is wat i switched to recently and i took a members advice on avoiding laying pellets bc unless every hen you have is laying age& standard laying regularly laying are they good for basically if you have a battery chick farm only time feeding layer pellets is considered healthy. ... I replaced the laying pellets with occasional oyster grit and one of my sexlink laid an egg for first time since summers that NOT softshell and IT DID NOT break as soom as i touched it..SUCCESS

 

[lazy gardener]

Yea but you see a lot of people mixing their feed on their own so they know what is ground or fed to their birds

Home made feed can be made the right way, or it can be made very poorly. If one knows what they are doing, and balances the protein, mineral, and vitamins correctly, they can produce a great feed. There are vitamin and mineral additives that should be used (Fertrell is the only one I am aware of, but am sure there are others). If one simply mixes a little of this and that with a lot of this and that, simply based on "some one said", they are bound to eventually run into nutritional problems IF their birds don't have access to good free range. It's not possible to make good home made feed for the small flock without it being cost prohibitive.

I have also seen people on the other hand feed just grains and their chickens were the healthiest and live a long time.
On the other hand pre mixed feed chicken were sick and lots didn't live as long

There's more to the story than "good health on grain only diet" versus "poor health on pre mixed diet".

What other factors are involved? Genetics, housing, crowding, free range, disease, parasites? Old rancid pre mixed feed compared to fresh grain feed? Feed is only one portion of the good flock management equation.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have also seen people on the other hand feed just grains and their chickens were the healthiest and live a long time.
On the other hand pre mixed feed chicken were sick and lots didn't live as long

Yes, it's interesting to see all the different ways. I wonder if they were free ranging with the just grains. And also if the ones feeding formulated were diminishing it with treats. If they supplemented calcium and that type of stuff. I also think genetics plays a huge roll in this conversation. Both breed but also just general predisposition to certain ailments. Some people have selected their birds for vigor and have much healthier stock than those who just got hatchery chicks for example. And I suspect their parasite management may also play in. There are so many variables. So hopefully people will report as many of theirs as they think of.

I have seen much claim that the age of the feed has a big impact on the nutrients available. But as major over thinker... I bet that is also relative to how it is stored.

I have even seen someone who completely free ranges with NO supplemental feed and claimed good results. Which of course would be very dependent on the quality of forage and how many birds are trying to thrive on it.

I also would like to know what kind of egg production they get on which breed with the different feeding styles.

I know your main question is what id the actual daily need in IU or other units of measure for the specific vitamins. Sorry if my thoughts aren't on topic enough for you. I truly don't mean to detract from your actual goal with this thread. if so, please KINDLY let me know! Thanks.

 

[lazy gardener]

I have seen much claim that the age of the feed has a big impact on the nutrients available. But as major over thinker... I bet that is also relative to how it is stored.

I have even seen someone who completely free ranges with NO supplemental feed and claimed good results. Which of course would be very dependent on the quality of forage and how many birds are trying to thrive on it.

I also would like to know what kind of egg production they get on which breed with the different feeding styles.

Excellent points.

Back to OP and her question re: Vit A. Without doing a nutritional analysis of each and every bag of feed, there would be no way of knowing what is in that bag. Granted, there is the analysis label. But several weeks of storage at less than optimal conditions will have a huge impact on the amount of Vit A that makes it into the feed trough.

Bottom line for me: purchase fresh, good quality feed. Do not buy in bulk. Plan to use it up within 6 weeks of mill date. Store feed dry and cool, out of reach of insects/rodents. Limit poor nutrient level snacks. Give lots of opportunity for free range balanced with your predator load, of course. When birds do not free range, see to it that they have a Deep Litter run, and give them lots of garden debris. Fermented feed. Add supplemental multi vits during breeding season. Offer free choice egg shell, oyster shell even if birds are on layer feed.