Vote now! American Shepherd/Mini Aussie VS CKC Spaniel!

[PICKSTER]

Curious to know which of these two (very different) breeds would fare best on a farm. They don't have to be friendly with every animal but just smart enough to learn to leave them alone.
I adore both breeds and cannot decide. Vote if you are familiar with them, even if only through research, friendly encounters, or if you've just heard great things about them.

Also, no pressure I'm not getting one anytime soon . Maybe in like 1-2 yrs. If you have any other long-medium haired, medium-high grooming requirements, smallish, low-medium prey drive, Velcro personality type dogs to recommend I'd be happy to hear your suggestions!

We have a mini Australian Shepherd on our mini ranch. He loves to herd the horses around and is so well suited in his interaction with other animals and love to run the pasture. It doesn't hurt how much he loves everybody and everything. He's provided rabbit control also.

 

[PICKSTER]

Yes, she ran off with our beagle and she came back with seven gunshot wounds in the abdomen, spine, chest, anus, and that last one was going up through the roof of her mouth. The vet was shocked that she had lived since he could stick his finger up the hole and feel the back of her eyeball. They said she would probably act different and she really hasn't been the same since, but in a goofy way.

Yeah she freaks out if any animal is outside of its pen, at one point she pooped in the house and tore up a mattress in frustration, she potty trained quickly and has never been destructive so she was definitely acting out.
If I bring a goat into the house she whines and obsessively licks it but then nips its heels. Even if I correct her and tell her to go away she'll walk in circles and keep coming back.

Aw

A golden would probably love going to work with me too

 

[PICKSTER]

Goldens are lovely but may desire to retrieve your chickens.

 

[StinkyAcres]

@fluffycrow
@Pyxis

 

[Pyxis]

So - my dog is both! Due to a whoopsie involving the breeder's young daughter letting my dog's mom in with her CKC male, Pixel is half Mini American Shepherd and half CKC.

Sounds like you already have an Aussie, so you basically know what you'd be getting if you get a Mini American Shepherd - and do make sure you get one from a breeder that CALLS them Mini American Shepherds. A lot of breeders that call them Mini Aussies are backyard breeders that aren't doing the appropriate health testing, showing, etc, and you really need to make sure a shepherd is coming from a good breeder. Poorly bred Aussies can be neurotic and aggressive. I have a coworker whose 'mini aussie' just bit him in the arm seriously enough that it left four puncture wounds. His offense was turning over in bed to face her.

Any breeder you go with - and this should be any breed - should have titled parents that are proven, be this in the show ring for show line dogs or sports if they're working line dogs. They should have the parents OFA tested and be happy to share their results with you. Don't go with a breeder who can't provide these things.

On the CKC side of things, they are great dogs! But they have health problems. Even lines from great breeders have health problems. Nearly all CKCs carrying the IVDD gene, meaning they are prone to back problems. Pixel herself inherited one copy of the gene from her father. They are also prone to heart issues, though good breeders have done work on that - Pixel's father's line has been carefully bred for heart health, and the breeder owns an 11 year old that hasn't so much as developed a murmur. But they ARE very prone to heart issues. It is something to expect going in.

Temperament-wise, Pixel is great with the animals on my farm. She has herding tendencies, but I can call her off stock no issues. She has never made a move to attack my farm animals. She will chase them sometimes, but I just call her off if it's a problem.

She is a breeze to train, and wants to work for me. However, this means she does need to have a job. If I don't give her mental stimulation, she will find something to do - and it won't necessarily be what I want her to do, haha. Honestly, she leans more towards the MAS side in regards to temperament.

If I was choosing between the two breeds, I'd choose Mini American Shepherd. They are great farm dogs and are relatively healthy. CKCs are great dogs, but they are too prone to health issues for me. I worry about Pixel developing back or heart issues from that side of her parentage.

This is my little mutt:

 

[Everose]

So - my dog is both! Due to a whoopsie involving the breeder's young daughter letting my dog's mom in with her CKC male, Pixel is half Mini American Shepherd and half CKC.

Sounds like you already have an Aussie, so you basically know what you'd be getting if you get a Mini American Shepherd - and do make sure you get one from a breeder that CALLS them Mini American Shepherds. A lot of breeders that call them Mini Aussies are backyard breeders that aren't doing the appropriate health testing, showing, etc, and you really need to make sure a shepherd is coming from a good breeder. Poorly bred Aussies can be neurotic and aggressive. I have a coworker whose 'mini aussie' just bit him in the arm seriously enough that it left four puncture wounds. His offense was turning over in bed to face her.

Oh wow, that's horrible.
I'd definitely go for the American Shepherd over the Mini Aussie since soooooo many people in my area are listing the Mini Aussies left and right. I can't go into a store without seeing someone listing a 2.5 year old Mini Aussie in non staged photos "with papers" like that's supposed to make their breeding reject a proper Mini Aussie. Also it seems like more and more people in my area are breeding Mini Aussies purely for their small size, pattern and blue eyes, I see no mention of proven parents or good temperament anymore.

Any breeder you go with - and this should be any breed - should have titled parents that are proven, be this in the show ring for show line dogs or sports if they're working line dogs. They should have the parents OFA tested and be happy to share their results with you. Don't go with a breeder who can't provide these things.

I may or may not go for a puppy, if it's all I can find then I think a puppy would be great, but part of me wants to adopt a retiring momma, possibly a rescue. I don't plan on showing my dog or competing in any rings, I already have my hands full with my neurotic pittie, I just want a little/medium companion to practice grooming and keep in my tiny house with my other dog, hopefully I can get that by supporting an ethical breeder, but if not I'll happily rescue a dog that needs a home.

On the CKC side of things, they are great dogs! But they have health problems. Even lines from great breeders have health problems. Nearly all CKCs carrying the IVDD gene, meaning they are prone to back problems. Pixel herself inherited one copy of the gene from her father. They are also prone to heart issues, though good breeders have done work on that - Pixel's father's line has been carefully bred for heart health, and the breeder owns an 11 year old that hasn't so much as developed a murmur. But they ARE very prone to heart issues. It is something to expect going in. Temperament-wise, Pixel is great with the animals on my farm. She has herding tendencies, but I can call her off stock no issues. She has never made a move to attack my farm animals. She will chase them sometimes, but I just call her off if it's a problem.She is a breeze to train, and wants to work for me. However, this means she does need to have a job. If I don't give her mental stimulation, she will find something to do - and it won't necessarily be what I want her to do, haha. Honestly, she leans more towards the MAS side in regards to temperament.

That's so sad that the CKCs are so unhealthy
I'd definitely be extremely picky in buying a puppy, but I would also consider a dog that had disclosed health problems and was a program reject. I don't mind giving my dogs pills or massages, I already have one immune compromised beagle and a pit bull with allergies

If I was choosing between the two breeds, I'd choose Mini American Shepherd. They are great farm dogs and are relatively healthy.

That's kinda where I'm leaning at this point. Since I already know what to expect and I'd have the ability to properly train and invest in an MAS.

CKCs are great dogs, but they are too prone to health issues for me. I worry about Pixel developing back or heart issues from that side of her parentage.

This is my little mutt:

View attachment 3860546

She's adorable! Thank you for your input

 

[Pyxis]

I may or may not go for a puppy, if it's all I can find then I think a puppy would be great, but part of me wants to adopt a retiring momma, possibly a rescue. I don't plan on showing my dog or competing in any rings, I already have my hands full with my neurotic pittie, I just want a little/medium companion to practice grooming and keep in my tiny house with my other dog, hopefully I can get that by supporting an ethical breeder, but if not I'll happily rescue a dog that needs a home.

Oh for sure going through a rescue is good! I was more meaning if you are going through private sales or a breeder, make sure they have OFA testing and are breeding their dogs for a reason, which is shown by having titled parents.

Even if you are not planning to show your own dogs, having titled parents means the breeder is breeding dogs for a purpose, and is selecting good stock to breed. It means they aren't just throwing dogs together and breeding for no reason except to make more dogs - a.k.a make money. It's a way to make sure you aren't supporting unethical breeders or puppy mills, basically.

It also means more dogs aren't being created to end up in shelters, because ethical breeders have contracts and take dogs back if their new homes don't work out, so they never end up in the shelter.

 

[fluffycrow]

I like what Pyxis has said.



When discussing the health of any breed, but especially breeds that have been riddled with BYBs, it is important to look at the actual health tests the OFA requires for the breed. Listening to people's experiences with the breed(s) you're looking to get is useful, but you will hear a plethora of different health problems, caused by irresponsible breeding. Stick to the breed club, the OFA, and the AKC CHF requirements for the breed, and look for breeders who test for them. Any Miniature Australian Shepherd is a BYB dog. The breed per the AKC is the Miniature American Shepherd. Breeders who go with the former are not worth purchasing from, or supporting.



The CKCS club of america and the OFA require more tests for their dogs than what the MAS club of america and the OFA require for the MAS. Getting out of Cavaliers or not getting a Cavalier for their potential health issues is a very valid reason, as long as you don't confuse what those are (ie don't mistake the health issues BYB Cavaliers have with the health issues well bred Cavaliers are prone to having).



All that being said, I fail to see the use of a Cavalier as a farm dog. Cavaliers are a companion breed, and one not suited for most of what farm life entails. Their coat will pick up pretty much every sort of twig, bush, burr, and insect known to man, while offering very little other than companionship. They will not herd (more likely to do the opposite), and they do not, and should not be used for protecting the farm (I don't think that someone would even think about using a Cavalier as a protection dog, but you never know).



I do not have any personal experience with the MAS, or any sort of contact with the breed or its breeders, so I do not know how well it can herd, but I think it's more "farm dog" than a Cavalier

 

[Everose]

All that being said, I fail to see the use of a Cavalier as a farm dog. Cavaliers are a companion breed, and one not suited for most of what farm life entails. Their coat will pick up pretty much every sort of twig, bush, burr, and insect known to man, while offering very little other than companionship. They will not herd (more likely to do the opposite), and they do not, and should not be used for protecting the farm (I don't think that someone would even think about using a Cavalier as a protection dog, but you never know).

Oh I never meant for the cavalier to have any other purpose than being a companion. The only reason the American shepherd would have a job is because they have work drive. My dog also would not be outside very much, even if it were a working farm dog (like my LGDs) my dogs are getting their own fully accessible air conditioned house and they're spending nights with me in my house (not the LGDs though, they wouldn't choose to), none of my dogs willingly stay outside during the day. The purpose of both the MAS and CKCS would be as my practice dog and work companion, for that purpose all they need is a semi-groomable coat and a Velcro personality. I live on a farm and always will, that's why both would need to be unlikely to prey upon or injure my livestock.

Even if you are not planning to show your own dogs, having titled parents means the breeder is breeding dogs for a purpose, and is selecting good stock to breed. It means they aren't just throwing dogs together and breeding for no reason except to make more dogs - a.k.a make money. It's a way to make sure you aren't supporting unethical breeders or puppy mills, basically.

Okay gotcha!
I have never had a good experience with puppy mill or BYB dogs anyways and I hate supporting them, my first ever dogs (gifted to me when I was 5-6) were BYB and they were just awful, super unpredictable and not at all what they should've been, one was very aggressive towards me and the other never potty trained because of her living conditions prior to 12wks. My favorite dogs by far have been my Shih Tzus, I drove out of state for my favorite one and he was an absolute blast, all three were perfect breed standard healthy dogs (proven parents, AKC, UKC, and had health panels) except for one who had typical eye problems and allergies. They are just prone to too many breathing, eye, brain, and oral problems for me to want another.

 

[NatJ]

If you have any other long-medium haired, medium-high grooming requirements, smallish, low-medium prey drive, Velcro personality type dogs to recommend I'd be happy to hear your suggestions!

Have you looked into American Eskimo dogs? Small to medium size, long white hair, temperament possibly right for your purposes based on what I've read.
https://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/american-eskimo-dog/

Some years ago, I was busy researching every dog breed with a Spitz-type appearance, trying to find one that was trainable and did not have too much prey drive. The American Eskimo Dog sounded promising to me, except that I wanted short hair instead of long. But it might be a fit for what you want.