Walking/leg issues. Injury? Merek's?

[aliciaFarmer]

I really hope it is not Mareks. I usually don’t like to even mention the possibility, since injuries are much more possible. Sometimes they can get tendon injuries or a leg bone deformity which may have worsened. Time will tell, if she gets better, or gets worse. There are 4 types of Mareks symptoms, and some may only see one type or possibly 2. The most common is the neural form where a leg or wing becomes paralyzed, then the visceral form where tumors develop inside the body, the eye or ocular form, and lastly, the skin or cutaneous form which causes lesions on the skin. Here is some reading about Mareks:
https://extension.umd.edu//sites/extension.umd.edu/files/_docs/programs/poultry/FS-1007 Recognizing and Preventing Mareks Disease in Small Flocks.pdf

https://extension.psu.edu/mareks-disease-in-chickens

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

Thank you so much for those links. It looks like the only sign she has is her leg. Her eyes look normal though maybe a little droopy as if she's feeling under the weather which of course she is. I'm not noticing any other sign but we will see if she starts to get better. There are 5 babies in the coop and all of them are completely fine so I would imagine if it is Marek's, they may be affected first. But maybe I'm wrong? I guess I will just keep a close eye on her and everybody else. I was thinking that I should find a separate place to keep her so if it is something like merax she can't spread it but likely it's already there. I hate separating anybody unless absolutely necessary. I thought about having to put her down if that's what it is and I about lost it. I've always planned on processing extra roosters but I've never been able to do it yet. Crossing my fingers it's just a leg issue and one that's easily healable. My worry is though she does feel a bit thin. I'm going to go start feeling everybody else just in case. Might have been a free-range flock since the oldest were about 5 months old but our neighbor saw a fox or wolf running between our properties around 6 this morning so I haven't let anyone out today. As such, it will be a lot easier to check everyone.

 

[rebrascora]

In my opinion, her leg/foot is numb rather than hurting and her movement is unfortunately pretty typical of Marek's birds. She is unbalanced and wobbly rather than conventionally lame where a bird doesn't want to put full weight on a painful limb and has a very controlled and conscious hobble. The circumstances also tie in with Marek's as the stress of being harassed by cockerels/roosters is one of the prime triggers in my experience.
Even if it is Marek's, she may recover from this outbreak, but will always have the disease and be prone to future outbreaks at times of stress, as will other flock members that have been infected. The important thing is that she is actively eating and that is to be encouraged with nutrient rich foods and vitamin supplements to support her immune system. I have had some Marek's birds completely recover after just a few days and others take months of supportive care. Others decline and die or are euthanized once they lose interest in food and water. Keeping them as happy as possible and maintaining their appetite by tempting them with treats like egg yolk and yoghurt as you have been doing and if you can put her cage out on grass so that she can peck at that when the weather is warm will all be beneficial.
You might also want to consider dealing with at least one of your cockerels to prevent other pullets becoming stressed by them. Perhaps a bachelor pad if you can't bring yourself to process one or both.

 

[aliciaFarmer]

In my opinion, her leg/foot is numb rather than hurting and her movement is unfortunately pretty typical of Marek's birds. She is unbalanced and wobbly rather than conventionally lame where a bird doesn't want to put full weight on a painful limb and has a very controlled and conscious hobble. The circumstances also tie in with Marek's as the stress of being harassed by cockerels/roosters is one of the prime triggers in my experience.
Even if it is Marek's, she may recover from this outbreak, but will always have the disease and be prone to future outbreaks at times of stress, as will other flock members that have been infected. The important thing is that she is actively eating and that is to be encouraged with nutrient rich foods and vitamin supplements to support her immune system. I have had some Marek's birds completely recover after just a few days and others take months of supportive care. Others decline and die or are euthanized once they lose interest in food and water. Keeping them as happy as possible and maintaining their appetite by tempting them with treats like egg yolk and yoghurt as you have been doing and if you can put her cage out on grass so that she can peck at that when the weather is warm will all be beneficial.
You might also want to consider dealing with at least one of your cockerels to prevent other pullets becoming stressed by them. Perhaps a bachelor pad if you can't bring yourself to process one or both.

Although heartbreaking, I really appreciate your feedback. I have several baby chicks inside and I'm now terrified to bring them out to the coop for fear that they too could become ill. Have a second coop in the process of being built but definitely not big enough for everyone. It was just supposed to be for my Swedish Flower Hen boy and his 4 new ladies so I can keep my two boys separate with their own ladies. I did have a surprise Cockrell that I just got rid of a couple of weeks ago that was the main issue. Those Lavender Ameraucana guys are hard to discern early on anyway but mine acted like a girl.

If she does have Merek's, is it best to just put her down as humanely and gently as possible? The thought just devastates me. It gives me a panic attack and makes me cry hysterically like a hypersensitive pisces empath... but having a farm, I need to be able to do this stuff. I don't want her to be able to infect all my other birds.

I appreciate your feedback. And please pardon my over emotion.

 

[Eggcessive]

I am of the type to give it some time to see if she gets better. If it is Mareks, the others would have been exposed the same way she was, so it is “around.” Down the road, if you do cull her or if she dies, a necropsy with a Mareks test on tumor tissue or feather shafts is the best way to diagnose it or rule it out. There are some people who have gotten testing on blood or a single feather shaft while alive, but those tests can have false negative results that would bring about disappointment if they were not accurate.

@rebrascora and others here who have dealt with Mareks are better informed on what to do.

 

[rebrascora]

Firstly, DON'T PANIC! It will not help and in my experience, most of what you read about Marek's is worse than the reality. Also, whilst I believe it probably is Marek's because I have seen more than enough birds with it that move like that, none of us can say for sure and a necropsy would be the way to confirm it. I would not however recommend you cull her at this stage.... imagine how you would feel if you did that and it turned out to be something curable!.... but do make enquiries about how to send off a carcass to your state veterinary diagnostic lab, so that you are prepared if you do lose her. Knowing what you are dealing with is helpful in moving forward and managing your remaining flock.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

There are 5 babies in the coop and all of them are completely fine so I would imagine if it is Marek's, they may be affected first.

Sorry... she looks drunk and very much resembles Marek's more than injury. Most everyone who faces MDV will hope at first that it's an injury or a vitamin deficit.

Not every bird will be overcome by the symptoms, even if they do get exposed. While they would still be considered carriers... there has been one gene identified that does give resistance to MDV.

Ravenous appetite is one symptoms of MDV along with loss of coordination.

I have to say the best side effect of processing extra cockerels has been knowing that I now have the skill to confidently help one of the hens out if needed, and not be worried that I am hurting them or how much my heart hurts. Until you reach that point, Euthanasia by the vet or having someone help might be an option if you decide to go that route.

Links to help with getting a necropsy as well...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

I used to do FF but don't anymore for various reasons.

But since hatching, what I have discovered is that even though I provide good feed, good forage, extra feeders and don't diminish with treats.. I THOUGHT no way one of my birds could suffer a deficiency... my hatching tells another story! And the kicker... I thought oh I even supplement scrambled or boiled egg now and then. But I suppose that isn't doing any good if the hen that laid it was the one who wasn't absorbing the nutrient (that's missing) as efficiently as average other birds.

Which is to say, don't give up or assume Marek's. Great links were already provided.

I personally do cull for any suspected illness now. But I'm sure I would not have been able to in the early days. It's a very personal choice how to manage a flock. For me it's survival of the fittest TO a degree, once all their needs have been met. I take breeding and genetics very seriously for my flock and TRY to breed the best of the best and eat or sell the rest.

I am sorry for your hurt when you thought about culling. I KNOW how hard some of this animal stuff can be.

 

[aliciaFarmer]

Firstly, DON'T PANIC! It will not help and in my experience, most of what you read about Marek's is worse than the reality. Also, whilst I believe it probably is Marek's because I have seen more than enough birds with it that move like that, none of us can say for sure and a necropsy would be the way to confirm it. I would not however recommend you cull her at this stage.... imagine how you would feel if you did that and it turned out to be something curable!.... but do make enquiries about how to send off a carcass to your state veterinary diagnostic lab, so that you are prepared if you do lose her. Knowing what you are dealing with is helpful in moving forward and managing your remaining flock.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate the response! She seems to be doing a little worse in her movement in that a wing seems to be affected now. I will post a picture but I do have a video but I can get up on YouTube and linked again.


She seems to lay down with her Wing outstretched like this before taking the time to pull it back in which seems to take a few minutes and a bit of effort. She has been eating like a champ all day though, her regular food, extra yogurt and egg yolk and nibbling the grass. Mostly she just eats and sleeps.

That's such a good point about not culling her too soon, especially if it's curable. I already found the Oregon State University address of where to send her if she does pass from this and have all of that ready if I need it. Thank you so much! I'm so sorry you've gone through this/similar too.

 

[aliciaFarmer]

Sorry... she looks drunk and very much resembles Marek's more than injury. Most everyone who faces MDV will hope at first that it's an injury or a vitamin deficit.

Not every bird will be overcome by the symptoms, even if they do get exposed. While they would still be considered carriers... there has been one gene identified that does give resistance to MDV.

Ravenous appetite is one symptoms of MDV along with loss of coordination.

I have to say the best side effect of processing extra cockerels has been knowing that I now have the skill to confidently help one of the hens out if needed, and not be worried that I am hurting them or how much my heart hurts. Until you reach that point, Euthanasia by the vet or having someone help might be an option if you decide to go that route.

Links to help with getting a necropsy as well...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/how-to-send-a-bird-for-a-necropsy-pictures.799747/

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/nahln/downloads/all_nahln_lab_list.pdf

I used to do FF but don't anymore for various reasons.

But since hatching, what I have discovered is that even though I provide good feed, good forage, extra feeders and don't diminish with treats.. I THOUGHT no way one of my birds could suffer a deficiency... my hatching tells another story! And the kicker... I thought oh I even supplement scrambled or boiled egg now and then. But I suppose that isn't doing any good if the hen that laid it was the one who wasn't absorbing the nutrient (that's missing) as efficiently as average other birds.

Which is to say, don't give up or assume Marek's. Great links were already provided.

I personally do cull for any suspected illness now. But I'm sure I would not have been able to in the early days. It's a very personal choice how to manage a flock. For me it's survival of the fittest TO a degree, once all their needs have been met. I take breeding and genetics very seriously for my flock and TRY to breed the best of the best and eat or sell the rest.

I am sorry for your hurt when you thought about culling. I KNOW how hard some of this animal stuff can be.

Thank you so much! I kind of love you. I do I think you're right. And my mind and heart are both of the cull first mindset in that I don't want something like this to spread. Though if she has it, everyone's been exposed.

I had no idea ravenous appetite was one of the symptoms. For some reason I didn't read that in any of those articles I've read. But so good to know! She is definitely ravenous indeed. Eating everything I give her and picking at the grass, Etc. Not very interested in water if that's relevant. But I do ferment their feed so there's a bit of water there. It's crazy that no matter how well you care for your birds or how much you pay for expensive organic/non-gmo feed and extra herbs and supplements, and no matter how excessively clean you keep their coop, they can still get stuff. I let mine free range so they can have a good and happy life. That's the best I can do. I can't rid my property of wild birds or eradicate disease from the soil I suppose. But my birds are super over loved and happy and other than this, healthy. (Though now I don't even feel right saying I have healthy chickens.)

My husband offered to help (put her down) but I'm just going to do it if she's not better by tomorrow. I need to know how to do this in a humane and as gentle manner as possible. I mean I know how, I just need to be able to do it. I have at least five baby roosters I need to process here in the next couple months anyway. As a homesteader, this is kind of part of the job because I'm certainly never going to become a vegetarian or pay Whole Foods prices for organic chicken that wasn't treated as well as I treat mine.

Anyway, she seems worse now thank she did this morning so if that progresses, I won't watch her suffer and I will help her to the best of my ability in the morning. (I.e. held lovingly in my arms, upside down until she goes into a bit of a trance, loving on her and petting her and then slitting her throat well I continue to love on her and pet her until she's gone.) BUT My Hope Is that she will be doing better in the morning and we can put this behind us. Logic dictates that that will probably not be the case but I'm certainly more open to that than anything else.

 

[Eggcessive]

She may be extending her wing to help herself balance. If you cull her, I would refrigerate her body (don’t freeze) in a plastic garbage bag. To send it to the state vet, call for the best way to ship or take it in. Since it is Friday, it might be better to wait a few days. Some use foam cololers with ice packs to ship, but check with the state vet. Contact Fedex or UPS about overnight shipping, since that is the only way it should be done. She still might get better with support in case it is an injury. I have been treating a hen for 2 months with imbalance, thinking that she may have had Mareks. But after a month she was able to stand and walk around pretty well, although a little wobbly at times. She has some unknown problem, possibly a reproductive problem or an injury that affected her legs.

 

[Banditschickens]