Washingtonians Come Together! Washington Peeps

[Chickielady]

Check out this hysterical photo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/744786/lightbox/post/13039975/id/6212256

 

[Manningjw]

Older birds are immune because the disease affects the development of an organ (the bursa of fabricius) that is normally fully developed by 6 weeks(which is why the most common age affected is 3-6 weeks), abnormally longer (which is where the 18 week thing comes from).

Sorry you don't like educational posts. There's enough misinformation out there without adding to it, so I correct it when I see it because I love poultry, and love promoting well bred poultry. It affects the real poultry breeders when people don't bother to educate themselves, panic, and get one of the very very few poultry events in the Northwest cancelled due to panic.

Posts can be educational and constructive, which I fully appreciate and enjoy about this community. I don't appreciate hostility in an otherwise friendly forum. Even in this response we can see it with the same strawman attack as the post before.

While the primary impact is on the Bursa and I agree that they are more resistant as they get beyond 18 weeks old I do not see anyone aside from you claiming that adults are 100% immune and cannot shed virus. Still, the impact of an adult bird (say 20+ weeks old) having it shouldn't be much of a problem as long as they cannot shed the virus(which again I do not know). Does this matter at all to me regarding shows? Nope, I haven't ever gone to them nor have I had a desire to enter into a show. I don't have anything against people that do either though, my dad is a winning pigeon breeder actually.

The resources I read only said the clinically severe infections can occur as late as 18 weeks old, documented in White Leghorn breed. One the plus side, while further researching I did find a pertinent journal article from WSU which states they found recovered flocks didn't show evidence of carriers. Not exactly sure how long they would have to be recovered for or even what that means as I have read areas can be very very hard to rid of virus.

I also found another very interesting article about impact of non-avian animals spreading the disease, even dogs and mice that are inoculated with the virus can be short term carriers and shed virus in their stools. With dogs they only shed the virus for 2 days after, with mice I couldn't access the full article, but the mice were inoculated, then the virus spread to other mice who then transmitted it to chickens which subsequently died from the infection. Is the sky falling as you say? Not in the least, I just found it interesting how robust the virus is. Like you said before, VERY good bio-security and it probably wouldn't hurt to isolate your bird from a couple of days after a show if they were there and you are planning to get young chicks anytime soon.

 

[BGMatt]

Posts can be educational and constructive, which I fully appreciate and enjoy about this community.  I don't appreciate hostility in an otherwise friendly forum.  Even in this response we can see it with the same strawman attack as the post before.

While the primary impact is on the Bursa and I agree that they are more resistant  as they get beyond 18 weeks old I do not see anyone aside from you claiming that adults are 100% immune and cannot shed virus. Still, the impact of an adult bird (say 20+ weeks old) having it shouldn't be much of a problem as long as they cannot shed the virus(which again I do not know).  Does this matter at all to me regarding shows? Nope, I haven't ever gone to them nor have I had a desire to enter into a show.  I don't have anything against people that do either though, my dad is a winning pigeon breeder actually.

The resources I read only said the clinically severe infections can occur as late as 18 weeks old, documented in White Leghorn breed.  One the plus side, while further researching I did find a pertinent journal article from WSU which states they found recovered flocks didn't show evidence of carriers.  Not exactly sure how long they would have to be recovered for or even what that means as I have read areas can be very very hard to rid of virus. 

I also found another very interesting article about impact of non-avian animals spreading the disease, even dogs and mice that are inoculated with the virus can be short term carriers and shed virus in their stools.  With dogs they only shed the virus for 2 days after, with mice I couldn't access the full article, but the mice were inoculated, then the virus spread to other mice who then transmitted it to chickens which subsequently died from the infection.  Is the sky falling as you say?  Not in the least, I just found it interesting how robust the virus is.  Like you said before, VERY good bio-security and it probably wouldn't hurt to isolate your bird from a couple of days after a show if they were there and you are planning to get young chicks anytime soon.

Not sure how to post a PDF file on here. I have a fact sheet in my email right now from Washington state vet that confirms that adults, even recovered birds are not carriers. If someone can tell me how to share it I would love to.

Again sorry if you feel I'm being hostile. I'm abrupt and blunt and don't really care how that comes across. My interest is in promoting and educating about poultry, not making friends on some Internet forum.

 

[BGMatt]

Since I can't figure out how to share PDF here is copy and pasted.

Introduction
STATE OF WASHINGTON
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
P.O. Box 42560  Olympia, Washington 98504-2560  (360) 902-1800 Infectious Bursal Disease Fact Sheet
Infectious Bursal Disease virus (IBDV) (Gumboro disease) is caused by a highly contagious Avibirnavirus that attacks the bursa in young chickens. Death is most common in chickens 3 to 10 weeks of age and immunosuppression can affect birds that survive infection.
History
Infectious bursal disease was first recognized in Gumboro, Delaware, 1957. In December 2008, a more severe form of this disease, called very virulent infectious bursal disease (vvIBDV), was reported in California. Very virulent infectious bursal disease was first recognized in Washington State, February 2014.
What Animals Are Affected?
Chickens and turkeys are the natural hosts for IBDV. In California, vvIBDV has been identified in chickens.
How Do Chickens Become Infected?
Chickens, less than 8 weeks of age, become infected by eating feed or water that has been contaminated with vvIBDV. This virus is shed in the stool. The virus is not transmitted in the egg. Mature chickens that survived vvIBDV infection do not become carriers of the virus. IBDV is not a risk for human health.
What are the Signs of Very Virulent Infectious Bursal Disease?
Chickens less than 8 weeks of age affected with vvIBDV may be depressed, have ruffled feathers, develop watery to blood stained stools and vents, become recumbent and can die. In In California the death rate of layers ranges from 5 to 30% but is lower in meat chickens (<1%).
How does the virus cause disease in chickens?
IBDV attacks the developing immune system in the young chickens. Damage to the bursa leaves surviving chickens less able to defend themselves against infections.
What changes are seen in chickens that die with infectious bursal disease?
In chickens that die due to IBDV, the changes seen at dissection (post-mortem or autopsy) include swelling, reddening and hemorrhage of the bursa of Fabricius (a round, out-pouching of the cloaca).
How can I test to see if my chicken died due to infectious bursal disease?
Chickens that show the typical signs or have died within the past 24 hours are preferred for laboratory diagnosis.
Treatment
No drugs have been shown to reduce clinical signs or deaths associated with vvIBDV.
Vaccination
Veterinary supervision is required for successful vaccination to protect birds from very virulent infectious bursal disease.
Biosecurity
Backyard owners and people who show poultry should avoid purchasing chickens that had a history of diarrhea before 10 weeks of age. Introduced birds should be kept in separate housing for 30 days. Separate boots and equipment should be used for pre-existing poultry and introduced birds.
Do not take chickens to auction, exhibits, fairs, or shows if these birds are less than 12 weeks of age and had a history of deaths in the flock with diarrhea.
Four disinfectants have been listed as effective against the IBD virus by the National Biosecurity Resource Center at Purdue University.
Disposal
Chickens that die due to Infectious bursal disease or vvIBDV, should be incinerated or double bagged and disposed in an outside garbage can.
Manure Management and Disposal
Infectious bursal disease virus (IBDV) is resistant to many environmental stresses and often persists on farms for months. Composting of manure may help reduce the level of IBDV.
Internet Resources
Washington Department of Agriculture – Avian Health Program http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AvianHealth/
USDA: Biosecurity for Poultry - Keeping Your Poultry Healthy http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/birdbiosecurity/biosecurity/basicspoultry.htm
Avian Health and Food Safety Laboratory (a branch of WADDL) http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/avian.aspx
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AvianHealthFoodSafetyLaboratory
Washington Disease Diagnostic Laboratory (WADDL, Washington State University) http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/
National Biosecurity Resource Center, Disinfectants http://www.biosecuritycenter.org/disinfect.php
Lyndon Badcoe BVSc, MVS, DVSc
Avian Health Veterinarian and Epidemiologist Washington State Department of Agriculture 1111 Washington St. SE
Olympia WA 98504
Office phone: 360-725-5763
Fax: 360-902-2087
Cell phone: 360-507-6219
E-mail: [email protected]
WSDA Avian Health Program NPIP: http://agr.wa.gov/FoodAnimal/AvianHealth/AvianNPIP.aspx

 

[MamaManda]

I think that's a cool idea. Also welcome to BYC, sounds like you're in my neck of the woods. I'm in Battle Ground, WA about 10 minutes north of Portland.

Hi Matt! We used to live in Battle Ground, right off Grace, by the train tracks. (NE) We've since moved to Vancouver, but are searching madly for a place north again...BG, Hockinson, Brush Prairie, etc. I have 13 hens in my backyard now, and just put 10 in the brooder. I'll either need to build another coop or buy property. I'm hoping for property.
I see you breed Leghorns. I just recently decided I need a few.

I'd love to hear if you ever have birds/eggs available. My kids just started 4H this year and my daughter wants to show chickens. I don't know much about showing, but I'm fairly certain my hatchery birds won't cut it. I'm betting we could get some nice birds from your lines.

 

[BGMatt]

Hi Matt! We used to live in Battle Ground, right off Grace, by the train tracks. (NE) We've since moved to Vancouver, but are searching madly for a place north again...BG, Hockinson, Brush Prairie, etc. I have 13 hens in my backyard now, and just put 10 in the brooder. I'll either need to build another coop or buy property. I'm hoping for property. 
I see you breed Leghorns. I just recently decided I need a few. 
I'd love to hear if you ever have birds/eggs available. My kids just started 4H this year and my daughter wants to show chickens. I don't know much about showing, but I'm fairly certain my hatchery birds won't cut it. I'm betting we could get some nice birds from your lines. 

Awesome! 4-H is wonderful. I was just speaking at my old club's meeting tonight as a matter of fact. I believe very strongly in supporting the youth. I raise Buff Leghorn large fowl that would make decent birds for the kids, bantam Langshans work well for kids too. I'd be happy to help your kids get some nice birds!

What club are you guys with?

 

[MamaManda]

Hi Manda, welcome to BYC...as far as I have heard, in the front of BYC there is (was) a sticky linked to where we (all states) could stick where we were.
I have never gone there, and do not know of anyone who has.
Sorry...but if you hang around here, I am sure those close to you will pop up !

I will see if I can find that link but I would not hold my breath~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for checking on it Chickielady. I have 4 small children and can't spare the time to be a hardcore BYC groupie, but hopefully I'll be able to spot a few "neighbors" here and there!
Turns out BGMatt is actually pretty close to me, so I've found one already!

 

[Manningjw]

That is awesome thanks! A lot of that information is widely posted but the part about carrier status was not as readily available.

You know how many journal articles I had to read just to find out whether or not chickens could be carriers? More than I would care to admit.

This part is interesting:

"Backyard owners and people who show poultry should avoid purchasing chickens that had a history of diarrhea before 10 weeks of age."

So even though they state they cannot carry the virus they still recommend never buying a bird that may have had history of it, not that I disagree of course. Being cautious when going to the show seems like a good idea though, considering animals without a bursa of fabricius can carry and transmit the virus for a short period of time I imagine adult chickens wouldn't be any better than they are.

 

[MamaManda]

Awesome! 4-H is wonderful. I was just speaking at my old club's meeting tonight as a matter of fact. I believe very strongly in supporting the youth. I raise Buff Leghorn large fowl that would make decent birds for the kids, bantam Langshans work well for kids too. I'd be happy to help your kids get some nice birds!

What club are you guys with?

We just started last week with Elite Sheep, in Hockinson, (we get our lambs in a few weeks) and I've been directed to Kathy Giberson for the poultry club. As soon as we get everything settled, I'll send you an email. We'd love some nice birds!

 

[BGMatt]

That is awesome thanks!  A lot of that information is widely posted but the part about carrier status was not as readily available. 

You know how many journal articles I had to read just to find out whether or not chickens could be carriers?  More than I would care to admit. 

This part is interesting:

"Backyard owners and people who show poultry should avoid purchasing chickens that had a history of diarrhea before 10 weeks of age."

So even though they state they cannot carry the virus they still recommend never buying a bird that may have had history of it, not that I disagree of course.  Being cautious when going to the show seems like a good idea though, considering animals without a bursa of fabricius can carry and transmit the virus for a short period of time I imagine adult chickens wouldn't be any better than they are. 

I would imagine the other animals without a bursa "carry" it by eating infected droppings, and then pooping it out themselves.

I'm not happy with the vague wording on the part you highlighted, because it doesn't say why, or what age birds. It could be as simple as a recovered bird, while not a risk itself, has a suppressed immune system that makes it more susceptible to other diseases.