Washingtonians Come Together! Washington Peeps

[Duck Drover]

Oh okay.  I actually bought her from a breeder, not from a hatchery/feed store, but nonetheless, glad it looks like a pullet even if it doesn't have a fluffy butt.

The Buff Orpington is an English Orpington hybrid so it is not going to look as fluffy as an English Orpington. It is a production bird, not a dual purpose heritage bird like the original Orpington.

 

[vasher]

The Buff Orpington is an English Orpington hybrid so it is not going to look as fluffy as an English Orpington. It is a production bird, not a dual purpose heritage bird like the original Orpington.

So the hatchery Orpingtons will lay better than the English variety? Is there a division in chicken breeds like in dogs: show vs working lines?

 

[Carolei]

Quote:
Yes! I love them too! That's why I've been so unhappy with funky butts

. And I'm so glad I've got the bathing thing figured out. I'm going to give all three of my English Orpingtons a bath and a trim to try to keep them cleaner. Dottie is still super fluffy, and she looks so much better clean!

 

[Carolei]

Excellent post. The Marek's vaccine does NOT prevent them from contracting it, only from showing symptoms (this is true of most poultry vaccines, they don't work like human or dog vaccines). It is also totally ineffective to vaccinate them any time after 24 hours of hatching.

Vaccinating birds for a backyard, hobby, or self sustaining flock makes zero sense once facts are understood.

Marek's disease and the Marek's vaccine are clearly complicated issues. BGMatt expressed his opinion that vaccinating a backyard flock makes zero sense, but not everyone agrees. My veterinarian strongly recommended vaccinating my backyard flock against Marek's disease. And individuals who have watched their unvaccinated backyard flocks suffer and die from Marek's would probably not agree that vaccinating backyard birds makes zero sense. I also, do not believe that 24 hours is a magic number and vaccinating at 23 hours is fine, but at 25 hours it is "totally ineffective." The important thing is for the bird to be exposed to the vaccine and develop immunity before being exposed to the virus. Yes, the vaccine does not prevent them from contracting the disease and is not 100% effective, but in the vast majority of cases it does prevent illness and death. That matters to me with my backyard birds.

 

[BGMatt]

Marek's disease and the Marek's vaccine are clearly complicated issues. BGMatt expressed his opinion that vaccinating a backyard flock makes zero sense, but not everyone agrees. My veterinarian strongly recommended vaccinating my backyard flock against Marek's disease. And individuals who have watched their unvaccinated backyard flocks suffer and die from Marek's would probably not agree that vaccinating backyard birds makes zero sense.  I also, do not believe that 24 hours is a magic number and vaccinating at 23 hours is fine, but at 25 hours it is "totally ineffective." The important thing is for the bird to be exposed to the vaccine and develop immunity before being exposed to the virus. Yes, the vaccine does not prevent them from contracting the disease and is not 100% effective, but in the vast majority of cases it does prevent illness and death. That matters to me with my backyard birds.

Believe what you wish but science isn't on your side. With the way the vaccine works all it does is let your birds get sick but not show it, pass it to others, and allow the virus to become resistant and stronger for future generations. Was that a poultry vet that recommended that, doubtful since even commercial operations rarely vaccinate their own birds for it anymore? Experience is always the best teacher. Breed for resistance, better than letting weak genes thrive and endanger the breed, the birds themselves, and others peoples birds.

 

[crb1487]

Exactly. That is why I'm a firm believer in vaccinating. I was aware they can get it still however everything says its usually to a lesser degree and this doesn't seem what I would call lesser degree (except there's no discoloring and thank god no neck twisting)

Seems she's got 1symptom from 1thing and then something from another too the point, I'm not sure if I should be treating for fungal, coci lead poisoning. Can be sure wasn't vitamin deficiency in the beginning as she was healthy weight up til a couple days ago.

Being Merik would make me concerned to re introduce her if she manages to pull through.
Just not sure. If this can happen to a completely healthy hen out of the blue, it could really hard if I'm nursing all of the flock soon.
I have 4 roosters and 17 hens all 12mo old - 14/15mo.

 

[Duck Drover]

So the hatchery Orpingtons will lay better than the English variety? Is there a division in chicken breeds like in dogs: show vs working lines?

That is my understanding but I am not able to find the specifics to provide references. There is a buff colored English Orpington but they are going to have the same U undercarriage or overall basketball shape as the English Orpingtons. The American Buff Orpington from hatcheries originally (although breeders may breed these American type birds too) are hybrids that carry many of the Orpington qualities so they are called Orpingtons but they are smaller and thinner birds with more of a V shaped undercarriage due to crossbreeding with the Rhode Island Red (if I remember correctly) while the American White Orpington may be crossed with a White Leghorn.

Anyway, because hatcheries focus more on egg production than breed preservation they throw a bunch of stuff into the pot and their boiled down versions of recognized breeds fall short in many ways to the original breed. This may be an "improvement" if the goal is to crank out more eggs in a shorter lifespan but people like myself want to preserve the original breed by keeping genetic lines as pure as possible. Some hatcheries may be trying to bring back heritage birds due to popular demand but ultimately they produce birds they can sell as chicks while breeders grow out breeding stock and work on improving their own stock through selective breeding.

In general, bulky meat birds are not good layers and lean layers are not good meat birds while dual purpose birds are decent layers and decent meat birds designed to give eggs for breakfast as well as chicken for dinner. The American Buff Orpington is more on the egg production side than the buff colored English Orpington so they are a popular bird for backyard layers. They still have some of the Orpington fluff but they will never have the fluffy butt of the imported English Orpington.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but that is what I recall from my research. I had a few Buff Orpingtons running with my English Orpingtons at one time but I got rid of them because they looked so pathetic next to my English Orpingtons, which are bred to the American SOP but retain more of the English type rather than having the American type. I also tried some lavender Orpingtons but they were also pathetic compared to my English Orpingtons since lavender is still a project color brought in through crossbreeding.

 

[Duck Drover]

Believe what you wish but science isn't on your side. With the way the vaccine works all it does is let your birds get sick but not show it, pass it to others, and allow the virus to become resistant and stronger for future generations. Was that a poultry vet that recommended that, doubtful since even commercial operations rarely vaccinate their own birds for it anymore? Experience is always the best teacher. Breed for resistance, better than letting weak genes thrive and endanger the breed, the birds themselves, and others peoples birds.

This is why I am not in favor of vaccinating. People who have Mareks in their flock may need to vaccinate but healthy birds will produce healthy offspring that do not need to be vaccinated. The vaccinated birds contribute to the spread of the disease, not the cure. The best way to eradicate a disease is to cull sick birds, not introduce them to healthy birds. When a vaccinated bird is really sick but does not look sick because the symptoms of the disease are masked, that bird becomes a carrier and will spread the disease. That is probably why Marek's is so prevalent - you can't fight something you can't see. I would prefer to have every one of my birds die from a disease than to spread a disease to someone else's flock.

For people who are not buying or selling birds other than buying a few to keep without ever selling any birds, vaccination is probably harmless. The problem is when people sell their vaccinated birds to join other flocks. If people have unvaccinated birds as breeders but vaccinate chicks to join infected flocks, there is no harm in that because the breeder will know their birds are healthy and they are not exposing a vaccinated chick to the disease but the chick will be exposed in the new flock. The biggest problem is that people who have Mareks in their flock will vaccinate their chicks, which are then exposed carriers, and then spread the disease to other flocks. I have known about people who vaccinate all their chicks because their flock has Mareks and then pass on the disease by selling their carrier chicks. To me this is totally unethical.

If you have vaccinated birds they should be treated like sick birds and not exposed to confirmed healthy unvaccinated birds.

 

[Duck Drover]

Now I can get off topic and post about myself, lol.

I went to the dermatologist today and she gave me some prescription creams to use. Her assessment is that because I have such sensitive skin and so many allergies (scented deoderizer spray from the bathroom spilling into the lobby area triggered my asthma so I waited outside while they opened doors to air out the office) I initially had an allergic reaction to the materials used in the ankle brace and then my rubbing different ointments on my skin along with harsh antibacterial soap (and surgical scrub wipes) continued the irritation to delay healing. She said it looks like I have been scratching it but if I am it is not during waking hours unless it is happening without my realizing it.

She gave me prescriptions for clobetasol propionate and clindamycin phosphaten, both topical solutions rather than creams or ointments, and she also gave me trial tubes of Vanicream facial cleanser and moisturizing lotion to try. I think she must endorse the Vanicream products for resale because she said I could buy it by the tub if I like it.

She did not do a scraping or biopsy because she does not want to break skin so she said to return for a biopsy if there are any fresh eruptions. Fortunately it does not look like any sort of infection or cancer so once it heals over I am clear for surgery.

 

[pennyJo1960]

Now I can get off topic and post about myself, lol.

I went to the dermatologist today and she gave me some prescription creams to use. Her assessment is that because I have such sensitive skin and so many allergies (scented deoderizer spray from the bathroom spilling into the lobby area triggered my asthma so I waited outside while they opened doors to air out the office) I initially had an allergic reaction to the materials used in the ankle brace and then my rubbing different ointments on my skin along with harsh antibacterial soap (and surgical scrub wipes) continued the irritation to delay healing. She said it looks like I have been scratching it but if I am it is not during waking hours unless it is happening without my realizing it.

She gave me prescriptions for clobetasol propionate and clindamycin phosphaten, both topical solutions rather than creams or ointments, and she also gave me trial tubes of Vanicream facial cleanser and moisturizing lotion to try. I think she must endorse the Vanicream products for resale because she said I could buy it by the tub if I like it.

She did not do a scraping or biopsy because she does not want to break skin so she said to return for a biopsy if there are any fresh eruptions. Fortunately it does not look like any sort of infection or cancer so once it heals over I am clear for surgery.

sounds like a solid start to me, I also have many allergies to scents and triggers violent attacks
I do not have asthma just awful allergies