Washingtonians Come Together! Washington Peeps

[Chickielady]

thank you for the detailed information. I had been starting to get confused. Had a chick die and one seem sock with cocci and have been treating with corid. I fidnt mix new eaxh day since the 3 chixks cant drink even close to a gallon in a day. I was recently informed that i hVe to mix new each day. I dont know why that is. I got another bloody dropping after 2 weeks on the non fresh corid and started over mixing fresh each day. I only can hope it takes care of the problem and i am even treating for the right thing. I was thinking about doing antibiotic but i dont want to not be able to eat the eggs when they do finally start laying.....

If you are dealing with chicks, you have a 6 month span til they lay, hopefully, there is not "Antibiotics" in them any longer.
You are correct in your assumption of "Amprolium"

We can compare Amprolium to Aspirin, for example, and all it's "Brand Name" applications...

If you are feeding baby chicks, used medicated feed.
As they grow to 2-3 months of age, they should be fine & weaned off "medicated" feed.

After that, I keep Corid (powder) in my barn, and feed Stater grower whichs has no medication.
IF I see any signs of Cocci, I give Corid in their ONLY source of water immediately.

There has never been any issue of death via cocci, ever.
And you can go get a vet test, on POO from a chicken & YES it will say the bird has TONS of cocci ...and the reason why is it is present in the soil & will always be there in the bird's gut.
So many BYCers get a STOOL sample tested & come screaming back : I HAVE COCCI !!!"

well, duh, we all have it, it is there 24-7 for ever and our birds are immuno-acclimated against it.

So, if you think a 2 year old bird dies of cocci, wrong.
It is there, in our fowl's gut.....what kills a 2 or 3 year old bird is never cocci.

And a stool test will say YES THERE IS COCCI !!!!
DUH !!!
What we have to do is acclimate our babies to the parasite, and from then on, the parasite passes theough, unable to harm the gut lining on our birds.
So, yes, taking a stool sample on a chicken is going to show cocci.
G'night all

 

[JulesChicks]

Corid is a brand name of the drug, Amprolium.
Amprolium is used in "Medicated" chicks starter.

So, the chick starter is MEDICATED with Amprolium.

You can also BUY Amprolium, in a gallon jug or a dry powder, and it is marketed under several names, one of which is Corid.

What you need to remember, is,

You do not, feed your animals "medicated Feed"
AND then administer Corid (or any other marketed amprolium) in their water................... Because now you will be OVER MEDICATING and it can kill !

So, either you use medicated feed and regular water, or un medicated feed and then you medicate the water,
BUT not both.

Just to clarify, I was listing brand names - Ampromed is another brand name for Amprolium, so sometimes you will find Corid, and other times Ampromed. I fed unmedicated feed and then ended up using the Ampromed. Next time I may use the medicated feed - or just use the low dose for the Ampromed, Corid while they build up resistance.

 

[JulesChicks]

Aw, so here we go, thanks for coming forward on the symptoms and YES you did have nasal dischage.
MG, yes I have had that bad boy several times, and yes it is passed through the egg, and yes I had to delete several entire flocks (24+ birds) due to repeated MG symptoms to the point where I had to inject (M injection ) Pen Aquas, on a few birds, via muscular breast injection.
It revived them, but a week later they fell ill again.
I culled the flock & contacted the breeder.
She disapeared for a year, and is now selling again & I hope the birds are MG free.
And dang those Blue Copper Marans were gorgeous !!!
But full of MG.
I am sorry for your losses ! It hurts bad when you buy, hatch & raise babies, only to watch them fail & die.
MG has very apparent symptoms, and thanks for telling your story & helping new people her LEARN.
One of the most apparent symptoms of MG is "Pump Handle Respiration" which is the bird standing up staight (high) and gasping, then sinking down, only to resume his pump action, like the pump on a well. The second symptom just before the succomb, is turning blue, and the entire time you hear the gurgling of 'air-saculitis" where the air sacs of the bird (LUNGS) are so infected it is drowning...it would be our version of bad bad pnuemonia.

Thanks again for helping educate the new people here !
I hope you over come your issues, and let me know if I (or any of us oldies) can help !!)
YOU ARE AWESOME !!!

@Chickielady Thank you so much for your kind words and support. It has been a frustrating few months with a steep learning curve. I very much respect the opinions of those who have been around chickens for much longer than me! I have had dogs all my life, horses and some cats, but never any birds - so much of this is new. Birds seem to get sick in a way that mammals don't, or maybe in just different ways. I would like your opinion on flock management with MG antibodies in my flock. If all my birds are healthy, can I risk adding new birds at some point? If so, would you recommend vaccinating the new birds? I have 13 remaining birds ranging from 12 weeks to 8 months, all pure bred from breeders, not hatcheries and all are healthy. I know the only way to get rid of the MG is to cull everyone, disinfect and wait about 30 days for it to die off in the environment in warm weather (acc to my vet). BUT, there is a chance I could go through all of that only to have a wild bird bring it onto my property again. So, if I have healthy birds that are immune what should I do? I had wanted to possibly hatch and sell the extras but this puts a wrench in that plan since it can be vertically transmitted via the eggs.
Thanks again and please let me know your thoughts.
ps: would someone like you be willing to sell me chicks or hatching eggs with the MG in my current flock? Would it be a death sentence for them or could they be resistant as well?

 

[JulesChicks]

Ugh, the breeder of the sick birds just contacted me through FB and I need to vent! I am so sick of her writing things that I interpret as accusatory. I have been very nice and patient with her, she has taken no responsibility and has questioned how I treated my birds (with what), what the vet said re antibiotics, etc and now she is asking why I didn't do a necropsy! She wrote to tell me that a lady with birds unrelated to hers (and in Spokane) had an outbreak with symptoms of MG and had blood tests taken. Blood tests indicated MG, however the necropsy was performed and reports came back negative for MG. So she is saying blood tests are not conclusive for MG (which is true) and that without a necropsy MG cannot be diagnosed properly (which is NOT true). The latter statement from her disagrees with both my vet and the State Vet in Puyallup - so apparently this breeder knows better? We had several swabs taken and a PCR culture done to test for MG, this test alone was $50 and proves that the bird had MG. So why the heck! would I need to order a necropsy??!! She ends by saying "just wanted to let you know we are still on this" - however last she wrote she was going to talk to her vet and I thought have some tests done and there has been no word from her on that front.

 

[Chickielady]

Ugh, the breeder of the sick birds just contacted me through FB and I need to vent! I am so sick of her writing things that I interpret as accusatory. I have been very nice and patient with her, she has taken no responsibility and has questioned how I treated my birds (with what), what the vet said re antibiotics, etc and now she is asking why I didn't do a necropsy! She wrote to tell me that a lady with birds unrelated to hers (and in Spokane) had an outbreak with symptoms of MG and had blood tests taken. Blood tests indicated MG, however the necropsy was performed and reports came back negative for MG. So she is saying blood tests are not conclusive for MG (which is true) and that without a necropsy MG cannot be diagnosed properly (which is NOT true). The latter statement from her disagrees with both my vet and the State Vet in Puyallup - so apparently this breeder knows better? We had several swabs taken and a PCR culture done to test for MG, this test alone was $50 and proves that the bird had MG. So why the heck! would I need to order a necropsy??!! She ends by saying "just wanted to let you know we are still on this" - however last she wrote she was going to talk to her vet and I thought have some tests done and there has been no word from her on that front.

I want you to read this & study it and any other forms you can fins=d about MG and the subsequent illnesses that can happen, and usually do !
The e.coli infection ( colibacilliosis, can be what we call an opeurtunistic infection, so it never happens unless the bird is under extreme illness, in this case, MG.
This is classic, remember !
After you give the birds an antibiotic & ""Save"" them...they suddenly begin to weaken & get sicker (I remember I went through 4 or 5 kinds of antibiotics !
My walk on air (Trust walk) was when I was told (BY WSU) to take my birds OFF antibiotics & give them a chlorine solution, which from then on has been called "The Solution"""
The solution is:

2 cups of unscented household chlorine bleach, in 1 gallon jug.
Top it off with water & LABEL it, and keep it out of the sun and away from children.

FROM this solution, you add, 1 Tablespoon of the solution, per 1 gallon the bird's drinking water.

IF the birds are sick:
Add 2 Tablespoons per gallon to the bird's drinking water.
So what I had to do while my birds were dropping dead, is follow what Dr Dhillon recommended::e solution.
And I did.
And my birds were fine !!!

NOTE:::THe birds I had from a certain breeder here in WA state WERE infected with MG, and constantly ill..and they were culled. I contacted her (5 years ago?) and she said she was moving, HA HA she reappeared in the spring & is still selling.
Hopefully she has cleaned up her act.
Her birds wre gorgeous !
But so infected with MG...sad, I loved those birds !!!

Remember:
IF YOUR BIRDS ARE SICK::::: Add 2 Tablespoons of this solution , per gallon of the bird's water.

IF YOUR BIRDS ARE WELL::::: Add just 1 Tablspoon per gallon of water.

Chlorine dissipates every second, it is mainly a gas, and it is harmed greatly by the sun.
Keep your bird's water in the shade, and keep it clean !

 

[Chickielady]

Points to study from Dr Dhillon:::

http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/8883810/Two-outbreaks-of-colibacillosis-in-commercial-caged-layers.

 

[Chickielady]

This is what we use to combat MG:

http://www.qcsupply.com/denagard-liquid-concentrate-novartis.html


It is at timrs, hard to get due to demand.
For a while, about 3-4 years ago, it was so hard to get that there was a waiting list...then alot of us culled.

Those that treated their birds with denagard (Tylosin), often lost the birds to the secondary oppurtunistic infection of Colibacciliosis...so that is why the Avian Health Lab recommends the Solution in Bird's drinking water.

I also do not use Denagard any loner::: Trying to constantly save flocks due to Mycoplasma, is B>S>

Here is a good report & says plainly, Tylosan gives great results...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_gallisepticum

Thanks again for coming forward so we can help each other !!!
And many hugs to you !!!!!

PM me if there is anything else I can do to help !!!

 

[JulesChicks]

This is what we use to combat MG:

http://www.qcsupply.com/denagard-liquid-concentrate-novartis.html


It is at timrs, hard to get due to demand.
For a while, about 3-4 years ago, it was so hard to get that there was a waiting list...then alot of us culled.

Those that treated their birds with denagard (Tylosin), often lost the birds to the secondary oppurtunistic infection of Colibacciliosis...so that is why the Avian Health Lab recommends the Solution in Bird's drinking water.

I also do not use Denagard any loner::: Trying to constantly save flocks due to Mycoplasma, is B>S>

Here is a good report & says plainly, Tylosan gives great results...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycoplasma_gallisepticum

Thanks again for coming forward so we can help each other !!!
And many hugs to you !!!!!

PM me if there is anything else I can do to help !!!

Thanks so much Chickielady! I will check out the link above. I almost bought the Denagard but had already purchased the Duramycin. I almost returned it and ordered the Denagard online but didn't want to wait (and it was $50 and I had already spent $150 for the visit and testing). I didn't find Tylosan locally (or read elswhere Tylan) but didn't try every place I could have). I just wanted to be done at that point and move forward. I didn't want to treat with abx in the first place because I want disease resistant birds (same reason you culled and no longer treat the MG). All our other birds never became ill and are still healthy. Are you saying it would be okay to add new birds at some point with probable antibodies in my flock?

Regarding "the Solution" - my question is this, how does adding chlorine to their drinking water affect the birds' gut flora? I would think it would throw it out of balance, killing off the good bacteria in their guts, which would compromise their natural defenses. Another breeder I got birds from puts chlorine in his birds water because he said its the only way to keep the algae down. He has vigorous, healthy birds and he breeds for resistance and culls heavily. He does not treat with antibiotics. When he told me about the chlorine in the water I had the same thought but didn't ask the question, so I'm wondering if you know. I have been giving probiotics to the girls that got the abx because they were in the same tractor (even though they were not sick) to help replace their good bacteria - wouldn't the chlorine negate this? If not, I would love to have a way to keep diseases at bay, keep the birds strong and the water clean. Thanks!

 

[ochochicas]

Ugh, the breeder of the sick birds just contacted me through FB and I need to vent! I am so sick of her writing things that I interpret as accusatory. I have been very nice and patient with her, she has taken no responsibility and has questioned how I treated my birds (with what), what the vet said re antibiotics, etc and now she is asking why I didn't do a necropsy! She wrote to tell me that a lady with birds unrelated to hers (and in Spokane) had an outbreak with symptoms of MG and had blood tests taken. Blood tests indicated MG, however the necropsy was performed and reports came back negative for MG. So she is saying blood tests are not conclusive for MG (which is true) and that without a necropsy MG cannot be diagnosed properly (which is NOT true). The latter statement from her disagrees with both my vet and the State Vet in Puyallup - so apparently this breeder knows better? We had several swabs taken and a PCR culture done to test for MG, this test alone was $50 and proves that the bird had MG. So why the heck! would I need to order a necropsy??!! She ends by saying "just wanted to let you know we are still on this" - however last she wrote she was going to talk to her vet and I thought have some tests done and there has been no word from her on that front.

Although frustrating, it seems like you are making some progress. The breeder now knows her flock has MG and is passing it around. She isn't willing to admit it yet, but she clearly knows. Give it some time to sink in and maybe she'll finally admit it.

 

[nbd3um1]

Hello Neighbors,

We are working on 2.5 years with chickens and it has been amazing. Our flock is now at 12. This summer we had our first two predator attacks. One hawk, and our sweet "Mama" survived but took injures that we learned to dress and brought her back to the fullest health we can. She appears to have lost some eyesight but is a happy little hen. Our other attack is an unknown but assumed coyote. We had some spring hens that found a way out of their free range field and all that remained where feathers down the way. I am still trying to find how the two escaped. I love watching our rooster call his ladies over for blackberries or whatever yummies he finds. Such a gentlemen

We are looking for a local place to get a few other chicks. I would like to do it before the fall hatch season to have them feathered out and with the older hens hopefully by November.

Any ideas?