Washingtonians Come Together! Washington Peeps

[ochochicas]

Quote: This post I found very rude. Effective communication is as much a form of art as it is knowing the conventions of English grammar and usage.

I sent birds to the state vet in Puyallup. The vet there specifically told me that all birds should be vaccinated.

The vaccine manufacturer recommends vaccinating at 24 hours or less. I have vaccinated chicks at all different ages and have only had one bird die from Marek's since I started vaccinating. They key is to vaccinate as early as you can and then keep the chicks isolated from the virus for at least 3 weeks so they have time to produce antibodies.

 

[Manningjw]

This post I found very rude. Effective communication is as much a form of art as it is knowing the conventions of English grammar and usage.

I sent birds to the state vet in Puyallup. The vet there specifically told me that all birds should be vaccinated.

The vaccine manufacturer recommends vaccinating at 24 hours or less. I have vaccinated chicks at all different ages and have only had one bird die from Marek's since I started vaccinating. They key is to vaccinate as early as you can and then keep the chicks isolated from the virus for at least 3 weeks so they have time to produce antibodies.

I don't really see the need to vaccinate my flock because I don't have the virus currently and I will never take in adult birds. Bio-security is vital to my flock. If I have the option to buy chicks that are vaccinated vs those that are not, I will always opt for the vaccination because it doesn't hurt anything - but in my mind it doesn't help either unless you already have the disease. In that case it would be a very difficult choice for me to make whether I would vaccinate and never be able to breed/sell birds or chicks again or if I would euthanize and wait a year to start over. In a way, I guess it would be best for backyard poultry owners in particular without any intend to breed or sell to be vaccinated to protect their pets.

If you have Marek's in your flock it remains there regardless of vaccination as Carolei pointed out. Unfortunately it cannot be eradicated or it's spread prevented by vaccination like another virus. Your birds simply will be less symptomatic but will still be contagious and sick, just less so. If you EVER sell or give away birds to someone else, they will carry that virus with them and spread it to their flock and it will remain there for probably 6 months to 1 year even without any chickens there. I don't understand how Marek's isn't an NPIP dis-qualifier, I think it should be.

 

[Duck Drover]

Thanks for tagging me on this.  It is nice that someone remembers the plight of my birds.  I have not been around to post here because I think some people are being extremely rude to others.  There is also some misinformation people are posting, probably to make themselves seem right when they are not.

Despite what individuals believe about vaccinating and Marek's, everyone's beliefs deserve to be respected.  I am not going to argue with people who have small minds and even less education.

As for my flock, I had a very virulent strain of Marek's go through and kill every chick/pullet/cockerel that hatched for two seasons.  I lost a couple of adult birds as well.  In addition, I lost an entire line of project birds that can never be replaced.  The rooster was killed by a predator and every single one if his offspring died from Marek's.  There were a few birds that I thought were resistant.  They lived to be 11 months old and did reproduce, but they were not the quality of birds I could use to continue my project.  Besides that, I am no longer able to sell birds to others anyway.

Watching a bird suffer from Marek's is heartbreaking.  Based on that alone I don't know why people would be against vaccinating.  The research on the vaccine is old; more research needs to be done to make it more relevant and accurate to today's poultry standards.  A couple of things I would like to clear up are:

• Birds that are vaccinated to not shed the virus from the vaccine.
• Vaccinated birds that come into contact with the virus do not always become carrier and shed virus to other birds.
• Marek's is everywhere, especially in Washington.  Wild birds can bring it to  your property despite proper "biosecurity"
• If you have a bird that is sick with Marek's, all of your other birds have already been exposed.  Culling the sick bird will not remove the threat to your other birds.
• Marek's virus lives for years in the soil and coop.  Killing all your birds to start over will only be exposing the new birds to the virus that is already on your property.

I'm sure there is more, but I'm not here to write a novel, plus I have work to do.

People spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on coops, runs, electrified fencing, automatic coop door, guardian livestock dogs, etc. to protect chickens from predators, but they don't want to spend 25 cents on a vaccine.  It makes no sense to me.  Why not breed birds that are resistant to predation?  Seems like a silly idea, doesn't it?  Same for contagious diseases.  Makes more sense to protect them from disease and predators at the same time.  

The things that have helped me are the helpful people on BYC.  Also, knowing that I'm not alone in this has been reassuring.  I know for a fact that there are people on this thread that have active marek's in their flock and continue to trade birds with other people without disclosing it.  You may be one of the recipients of that stock, so no one is safe from getting it.

It has also helped to know that Marek's does not survive incubation.  Chicks will hatch without contracting the virus.  The vaccine is the only way I could continue to have chickens and not have them die a slow, horrible death from the disease.  Having to cull all your babies one by one is heartbreaking; I would not wish it on anyone.  

I hope you are continuing to study how Mareks is spread but, as you know, once you have Mareks there is no way you can have a healthy flock again. The only way you can have chickens is to vaccinate and you will never be able to sell any of your birds because they will all be exposed carriers. It is the people who have Mareks without knowing it (because their birds are carriers) and innocently sell a sick bird because it appears to be healthy to the unsuspecting buyer that are the largest contributors to the spread of the disease.

The highly unethical practice of people selling carriers is just part of the reason the disease has become so widespread and caused the heartache you are going through. You already know that you will never be able to allow a bird to leave your property and that even visiting people with chickens can put their birds at risk because you can also be a carrier of the virus through feather dander on your clothes or body. Sadly there are people who do sell sick birds and they know their birds are sick but they don't care.

Can you imagine if every bird you had that died of the disease instead infected another person's flock, most likely friends that you might trade birds with through BYC? You would be passing on your worst nightmare to countless other birds that could go on to infect countless more birds and repeat your tragedy to infinity! The source of your own exposure may have already contaminated so many more birds, either knowingly or unknowingly. If your birds had been vaccinated, you would not have known your birds were infected and you would not be taking the precautions you are now. Thankfully you will not do to others what someone did to you, and possibly many others.

This is an issue that concerns me greatly so I have been vocal about it with the hopes of educating people about the dangers of vaccinating without having a closed flock. My reason for doing so is so no one will have to go through what you are experiencing.

There are so many chicken diseases that can be spread from birds moving from one flock to another but they can often be traced back to the source. With vaccinated birds, they may be the lone survivor in a flock so the uneducated person may be clueless that the bird that appears healthy is actually the one that transmitted the disease to every bird it was exposed to without ever giving any sign that it is a serial killer. There is nothing evil about vaccinating birds, the harm comes from exposing those birds to healthy birds and spreading the disease. The sad reality is that vaccination is not a cure, it is a means of keeping the virus alive and well to destroy many more birds. It gives the disease more power to destroy than it has on its own and it is already destructive enough without our aiding its spread.

I am sorry if you think my words are harsh. They are intended to educate and not blame. People need to know the consequences of propagating a disease so that it can go on killing future generations of birds. The people with infected flocks who vaccinate chicks to sell as carriers are not thinking about anyone but themselves. I think people here are more responsible than that but there are dishonest people who do not care that they are the cause of a problem and not a cure for the problem.

The bottom line is that any time a chicken moves from one home to another there is the potential to spread disease, which is the reason we want naturally resistant birds with healthy immune systems and new flock members are quarantined long enough to become symptomatic if they are in the early stages of a disease. Few people would sell a sick bird on purpose, however the Mareks vaccine allows people to sell sick birds that appear healthy and get away with it. If people have vaccinated chicks and keep them for life, there is no harm done. Those birds should not ever be sold or given away, though, because that is how the disease will spread.

 

[Manningjw]

I know for a fact that there are people on this thread that have active marek's in their flock and continue to trade birds with other people without disclosing it. You may be one of the recipients of that stock, so no one is safe from getting it.

I really hope that isn't true, and if it is I hope they will cease that activity because that is the reason why it is so prevalent.

 

[Babybockbock]

Thank you everyone in this thread...ill take my leave untill allof this arguing is over...posts and questions are getting burried in the walls of txt. Ill check back in a few weeks and maybe subscribe again.

 

[Duck Drover]

I really hope that isn't true, and if it is I hope they will cease that activity because that is the reason why it is so prevalent. 

I did some research and the person she got infected chicks from is in Seattle. It looks like he contacted her 8 months later to inform her he was no longer selling chicks because he had Mareks deaths. He did the right thing but it was too late. If his flock was vaccinated he might still be selling infected chicks but fortunately he was able to stop the spread once he discovered the threat.

 

[Rod-T]

How's everyone?

 

[Melkuda]

On a more cheerful note. Look what I came home to

 

[pennyJo1960]

On a more cheerful note. Look what I came home to

congratulations and welcome

glad to have you I hope your time here is enjoyable, educational and fun

 

[Leigti]

I let all the chickens out of the run tonight. All the adults ran around like crazy, and now they are all scratching around and laying in the dirt. I guess they missed their dustpans. The three youngest are wandering around.