Watermaalsche Bantams

[KristenG]

Thanks! I used genetic anomalies that were already present in my flock for that triple spiked rose comb. I always seem to get a couple of d'Anvers with a double spike in their rose comb - I used those guys and most of my Watermaal project birds only have double spikes - but a couple of them got the triple spike this year and I am ecstatic! It seems like the multiple spike gene can simply manifest itself in many different ways, like the polydactyl gene. This is actually the second time I have re-created the breed. The first time I went to college and seeded my stock out cheap, with the promise that they'd help get me re-started in them when I had room again. One person I haven't heard from in a long time and kinda disappeared off the map with my stock - the other I think is now also going to college and not actively breeding the birds, so in order to get back into them, I've just taken measures back into my own hands. I am on year four with this group. This new strain is unrelated to my last strain except for the d'Anver blood is the same.

Funny you should have a problem with Orloffs having spikes on their rose combs - some of my d'Anvers have problems with no spikes! Trade ya! Lol...well, I will tell you one thing - once you get a comb without a spike it will take over (speaking from a horrific discovery with my d'Anvers when I thought I could get away breeding a real honey that was great except for her comb, lol)! Just keep breeding for shorter and shorter spikes and you will eventually get what you want - no need for a genetic anomaly with that one, although a genetic anomaly would make it go faster for you. The double spike, or triple spike, on the other hand is a case where you need an additional gene....

Kristen

 

[KristenG]

And I think it is called a walnut comb that is on the Russian Orloff, yes. I have heard that a walnut is actually a combo of a rose comb and pea comb genetics...as though perhaps the pea comb could help you take the spike off.....just a thought. Although you can make a walnut comb from a rose comb through selection. Lose the spike and give it wrinkles and make it short and wide. I think a walnut comb essentially is a type of rose comb. -KR

Edited to add - just checked my bantam standard and in it the orloff standard calls for a walnut comb under the official american bantam association standard of perfection. Although, I understand we are dealing with large fowl instead of bantams, I would assume the standard comb called for in each would be similar/the same.

 

[KristenG]

Anyway, back to the main topic at hand - is there anybody else out there interested in these birds? The Watermaals? A breed club was started a while back but nobody paid dues and so it was hard to keep it going, especially since I was in charge of writing newsletters and had to use all my own funds to keep the club current with the ABA and to mail newsletters off. Seems like people just dropped off the map when I called on them for help with the club. I am also interested in seeing what other people know about the Watermaal bantam and if there is any other interest in them? Please, let yourselves be heard!

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

They are very cute....I like the Owlbeards too.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
Yes they do. The OLD APA standard calls for spiked rose comb.

 

[KristenG]

Great! I think part of the downfall is they share so many traits with the d'Anver bantam that the d'Anver just kinda left these guys in the dust. But they deserve a place of their own. I'm going to start a new thread with the correct American name at the top and post some more information on them. Thanks for looking Rare Feathers!

 

[JohnGalt]

.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Depends on who you talk to.

Some say Walnut some say Strawberry and others say a spike-less Rose Comb.
The old APA called for a comb that is rose, narrow at the rear, without spike, and bright red.

To me a rose comb with out the spike on the rear is more a strawberry or spike-less rose than a walnut.
Note the old stranded for the Russian didn't call for a "pointless" rose comb only spike-less.

When I read the old Standard and try to picture the comb it is describing this is the type of comb that comes to mind. (comb on a KO Shamo in the UK)

Chris

 

[KristenG]

Dan - I have run across three breeders, to be exact, that were in the states. Forgive me if I cannot recall names. The first had what she claimed to be purebred Watermaal bantams imported from Canada. Many of her birds were less typey than project birds and many had white shanks, so it is questionable as to how pure she kept them. Some of her birds looked really good, some of the oldest pictures. Seems like her name started with an "L" - Linda? I don't know, after being attacked for having birds that were not consistently exhibiting good type - some even sporting single combs and calling them purebreds, she sorta disappeared. Too bad, cause she had some promising birds, but I do admit she should not have protrayed them as something more than what they were - a project. I agreed on the fact that they did not look like the Watermaal proper.

The second breeder has stock from my first attempt at creating my own Watermaals - we had many happy chats together exchanging info and breeding advise regarding Watermaals and I helped her get her own project on the ground. Her name is Cassondra, she lives in Ohio and I still have somewhat patchy connections with her. She is going to college right now and struggling to juggle school and chickens. I know how she feels...been there, done that.

The third person I know of was a fellow named Lee - had a screen name of Ohrient and I believe was mostly passionate about his longtailed fowl. He was a driving factor in helping set of a Barbu d'Watermaal Club of America. He made a website and gathered information from near and far on the bantam (Australia, Belgium, and the ABA etc.). I was struggling to keep up with him because I also wanted to be an active member of the re-establishment of this breed in the US. I drew the logo, I paid the expenses of maintaining an active status with the club and he went on and did his own things without communicating what he was doing on his end with either me or Cassondra - the other two breed club officers. The club sorta whirled out of control and he stopped communicating with me, making cooperation impossible - last thing I heard in 2008 was that he was gathering pictures for a new breed club forum and then POOF! He disappeared and never so much as bothered to contact me again. I was left paying the ABA for the active status of the club with no official club members paying me. I believe he had project birds from Polish and d'Anver origins. I often remember him mentioning importing, but I'm not sure if he ever followed through with it.

Our club had a lot of people interested in the breed but who did not actually own the breed - loyal Belgian bantam followers, and I believe a good majority of our other forum members were from overseas. I personally decided to take things a little bit slower and start from the ground up and wait before trying to re-activate the breed club. Lee went really fast and didn't let people think and wanted to set up a table at the National show sometime around 2007-2008 - not sure if he ever did or not - I certainly didn't have the money to help with that at the time, nor could I have gone to be a part of it. The main problem I saw with that is that none of us really had TRUE Watermaals or anything even that could pass for the breed to generate true interest or help draw in newcomers. I've been silently working underground for some time, waiting until I can put something nice out there on the show table so that I know for sure there are actually living birds to help breath REAL life into the club in America.

And thats all I have....

Best, Kristen

 

[JohnGalt]

.