Feed my girls fermented food today for the first time. They loved it. Gobbled it right up. First they picked out the fermented scratch that I mixed in there. Their not stupid. Going for the goodies first.
Ways to Improve Health?
- Thread starter spies04
- Start date
Thanks everyone! Leave to BYC members to be so quick to help! I will check with Walmart and our other local chain to see if they carry it now. Last time I bought a gallon of AVC, they didn't have the unpasteurized. I use vinegar a lot for cleaning and other stuff.
Don't worry 'bout the spelling, greyhatch. I don't think BYC has spelling police. If we know what you mean, why would exact spelling matter? There's more to intelligence than knowing how to spell.
When I was experimenting with fermentation, it was warm weather. My kitchen counters are cold and probably not more than 65 degrees. Will feed/grain still ferment if it isn't above a certain temperature, say 70 degrees?
- Apr 18, 2013
- 201
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mapa26, yes it will still ferment, it will just take a little longer! when it starts to ferment you will see gas bubbles breaking the surface, that's GOOD! then you will notice a whitish gray film on top of the feed,that's GREAT! Make sure you stir it everyday from the bottom! When I started I got scared I would have drunk chickens cause it started to smell like beer, but that's a good ferment with the grain, it wont contain alcohol the sugars eliminate it! then my feed smelled sweet and grainey, not bad at all! BUT, it got hot in the house when we didn't use the a.c. to save some electric, we r always outside with the critters anyway
!! My feed started to smell like sour vomit, it was NASTY, the birds still loved it but I started a new batch cause I couldn't feed it out without almost getting sick
!!!! so I keep a smaller batch so its used and refreshed more often! Have fun with it, and watch your birds getting shinier and healthier eating it!!
I didn't add anything to my fermented stuff. Just water and scratch in one and water and feed in the other. It took about 3 days for the scratch but only 1 day for the feed.
I had been needing to tidy up the coop. The impending cold snap made me get out Tuesday evening, despite the wind, to take care of it. I removed the worst of the poo from under the roost. I "fluff" up the shavings a bit and then "top it off" with a couple inches of fresh wood shavings. You can see that the litter under the roost is much deeper. It really does create heat.
Evidently, we have enough ventilation. It has not developed a bad odor. We wish we had made this access door higher, like the one on the other side, next to the nests. The roost is a 2 X 4, set at eighteen inches high.
A sparrow (sometimes more) keeps getting in the coop. It gets in the pen (gap around door) and then goes in the pop door. We tried to chase it out, using a rake, It flies all over, up high, but just will not go OUT. On this evening, my cat was hanging around, so I put him in there to see if he could persuade the sparrow to vacate the premises. He was excited, but could not get the job done. He would not jump or even get on the perch. Eventually, he gave up and left the coop.
Evidently, we have enough ventilation. It has not developed a bad odor. We wish we had made this access door higher, like the one on the other side, next to the nests. The roost is a 2 X 4, set at eighteen inches high.
A sparrow (sometimes more) keeps getting in the coop. It gets in the pen (gap around door) and then goes in the pop door. We tried to chase it out, using a rake, It flies all over, up high, but just will not go OUT. On this evening, my cat was hanging around, so I put him in there to see if he could persuade the sparrow to vacate the premises. He was excited, but could not get the job done. He would not jump or even get on the perch. Eventually, he gave up and left the coop.
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I don't think they carry it in one gallon jugs. They do have quarts though. What you can do to make it last is get a couple of gallons of distilled ACV and drain some out to use in other projects and then divide your quart between the two gallon jugs. But then you have to let it set for a couple of weeks or so.
You can also get frozen apple juice, mixing up the gallon as directed (I use 1 less can of water than recommended for juice) and then I'll pour a half quart of the unpasteurized ACV in that and keep it covered with a paper towel inside my dark cupboard for a couple of weeks and it makes ACV. It won't be 5% acidity so I wouldn't use it in recipes for canning or anything like that but you can use it for your birds' water and for fermenting feed.
I've been adding Fertrell Nutribalancer to the feed for a couple weeks now. I knew that I liked the stuff when I read about it. When I saw the label I fell in love. None of the other supplements I have seen can even come close to this.
Here's the ingredient list:
Dicalcium Phosphate, Dehydrated Seaweed Meal, Salt, DL Methionine, Calcium Carbonate,
Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione
Nicotinamide Bisulfite Complex, Riboflavin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Niacin
Supplement, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Thiamine
Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc
Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract,
Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Dried
fermentation product of Lactobacillus casei, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus
plantarum, Dried fermentation product of Enterococcus faecium, Dried fermentation product of
Bacillus coagulans, Dried fermentation product of Bacillus licheniformis, and Dried
fermentation product of Bacillus subtilis.
There are eight fermenting bacteria in there. I have been fermenting feed for months now, as it breaks the food down to a more digestible form and the chickens love it. (In the wild they are eating fermented seeds and such from the forest floor.) The wet mash also helps provide water and they don't drink nearly as much as when eating dry food. I use a grower / finisher crumble feed for all my chickens and offer oyster shell on the side for the mature hens. I started my fermentation with unpasteurized ACV. You don't really need it but it does get the fermentation going on a quick start. I found a cheap online source for that with free shipping:
http://www.pipingrock.com/apple-cid...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CJL6puvrrLwCFVFk7AodvDEAAA
I keep about three days worth of food fermenting in the bucket. I have found that if you mix too little then it stays too fresh to achieve full fermentation, and if you mix too much it loses it's punch and becomes susceptible to mold. The bucket stays inside while it's cold out so that fermentation works well. I keep a separate bucket for water. Each day after adding feed and water to the mash I refill the water bucket and let it sit overnight to get rid of the chlorine in the tap water. (It's the same method some folks use for aquarium water.) By trial and error I have found the right consistency for the slurry. I add feed and water to the mix so that it has a pudding-like consistency. The next day, after the dry feed absorbs water the top half of the mash has a very moist cake-like texture which is perfect for feeding. The fermentation was going well before I started adding Nutribalancer. Once I started adding that the fermentation really took off. The feed has a nice, fluffy head on top each day and it has a very nice sweet-sour scent. The chickens really dive into it, but they seem to be eating less, as if they are getting more of what they need.
I found the Fertrell dealer online. I didn't call before going so they didn't have feed mixed. They did sell me some of the Nutribalancer so I could add it to the feed I already have. They are an old fashioned country feed mill who started carrying the product because they had one customer who wanted it. When others started using it and giving feedback they decided to make it part of their regular mix. They also add fish meal to the mix, which provides the animal protein that all chickens should have. (I believe most feeds use soybean for protein.) The price is the same as Tractor Supply chain store feed. It's not cheap, and I'll have to drive farther to get it, but it is worth every ounce of effort. For anyone in the mid-TN / mid-KY area, the dealer is Adairville Feed Mill in Adairville, KY. For anyone else, you might find a local dealer through the Fertrell website: http://fertrell.com/locator/
Now that I've got it I'm giving my other vitamin supplements to a friend (and I'll try to talk him into splitting a batch of feed with me instead of using those supplements).
Here's the ingredient list:
Dicalcium Phosphate, Dehydrated Seaweed Meal, Salt, DL Methionine, Calcium Carbonate,
Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione
Nicotinamide Bisulfite Complex, Riboflavin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Niacin
Supplement, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Thiamine
Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc
Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Extract,
Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Dried
fermentation product of Lactobacillus casei, Dried fermentation product of Lactobacillus
plantarum, Dried fermentation product of Enterococcus faecium, Dried fermentation product of
Bacillus coagulans, Dried fermentation product of Bacillus licheniformis, and Dried
fermentation product of Bacillus subtilis.
There are eight fermenting bacteria in there. I have been fermenting feed for months now, as it breaks the food down to a more digestible form and the chickens love it. (In the wild they are eating fermented seeds and such from the forest floor.) The wet mash also helps provide water and they don't drink nearly as much as when eating dry food. I use a grower / finisher crumble feed for all my chickens and offer oyster shell on the side for the mature hens. I started my fermentation with unpasteurized ACV. You don't really need it but it does get the fermentation going on a quick start. I found a cheap online source for that with free shipping:
http://www.pipingrock.com/apple-cid...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CJL6puvrrLwCFVFk7AodvDEAAA
I keep about three days worth of food fermenting in the bucket. I have found that if you mix too little then it stays too fresh to achieve full fermentation, and if you mix too much it loses it's punch and becomes susceptible to mold. The bucket stays inside while it's cold out so that fermentation works well. I keep a separate bucket for water. Each day after adding feed and water to the mash I refill the water bucket and let it sit overnight to get rid of the chlorine in the tap water. (It's the same method some folks use for aquarium water.) By trial and error I have found the right consistency for the slurry. I add feed and water to the mix so that it has a pudding-like consistency. The next day, after the dry feed absorbs water the top half of the mash has a very moist cake-like texture which is perfect for feeding. The fermentation was going well before I started adding Nutribalancer. Once I started adding that the fermentation really took off. The feed has a nice, fluffy head on top each day and it has a very nice sweet-sour scent. The chickens really dive into it, but they seem to be eating less, as if they are getting more of what they need.
I found the Fertrell dealer online. I didn't call before going so they didn't have feed mixed. They did sell me some of the Nutribalancer so I could add it to the feed I already have. They are an old fashioned country feed mill who started carrying the product because they had one customer who wanted it. When others started using it and giving feedback they decided to make it part of their regular mix. They also add fish meal to the mix, which provides the animal protein that all chickens should have. (I believe most feeds use soybean for protein.) The price is the same as Tractor Supply chain store feed. It's not cheap, and I'll have to drive farther to get it, but it is worth every ounce of effort. For anyone in the mid-TN / mid-KY area, the dealer is Adairville Feed Mill in Adairville, KY. For anyone else, you might find a local dealer through the Fertrell website: http://fertrell.com/locator/
Now that I've got it I'm giving my other vitamin supplements to a friend (and I'll try to talk him into splitting a batch of feed with me instead of using those supplements).
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.
Note on ACV for fermenting. It doesn't need to be unpasteurized. Vinegar does not have the kind of bacteria you want to be fermenting grains. Not sure who started that rumor. But, vinegar can be useful to help keep the pH lower when you are starting a new batch of fermented feed. If you have unpasteurized ACV, great, use it, otherwise just use any plain, cheap vinegar, even white vinegar. It is true that unpasteurized vinegar contains "the mother", which can convert alcohol into vinegar, but it requires more time and undisturbed settings than most people are going to have to make fermented feed.
Raw ACV contains acetobacter. Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar).
For fermenting feed, if you want a starter, use something that is rich in lactic acid bacteria (LABs). Such as buttermilk, kefir, yogurt or fresh whey from raw milk. Whey would be your best choice followed by buttermilk, kefir and lastly yogurt. If you have a cheesemaker nearby, you should be able to get all the whey you could want. I have also used probiotic caps to boost my homemade sauerkraut, I think it did ferment a bit faster, but I haven't tried it in fermented feed.
Personally, I am of the camp that uses a starter for fermenting feed. Many tell you that you don't need it. While it is true there are plenty of LABs on all plant materials that, given the right conditions, will nicely ferment your feed, I'd rather hedge my bets against it turning alcoholic by using a starter. Grains are used to make beer and booze, after all! My feed is also pretty expensive and tossing 5 gallon bucket of the stuff is not cheap.
That said, I noticed that once we starting feeding them about 60-70% fermented feed, their droppings became much more formed. We left for several days recently and rather than have a friend feed them the FF every day,I just filled their dry feeder with dry feed. When we returned their dropping pile under the roost looked more sloppy, not formed much at all.
Raw ACV contains acetobacter. Acetobacter converts alcohol into acetic acid (vinegar).
For fermenting feed, if you want a starter, use something that is rich in lactic acid bacteria (LABs). Such as buttermilk, kefir, yogurt or fresh whey from raw milk. Whey would be your best choice followed by buttermilk, kefir and lastly yogurt. If you have a cheesemaker nearby, you should be able to get all the whey you could want. I have also used probiotic caps to boost my homemade sauerkraut, I think it did ferment a bit faster, but I haven't tried it in fermented feed.
Personally, I am of the camp that uses a starter for fermenting feed. Many tell you that you don't need it. While it is true there are plenty of LABs on all plant materials that, given the right conditions, will nicely ferment your feed, I'd rather hedge my bets against it turning alcoholic by using a starter. Grains are used to make beer and booze, after all! My feed is also pretty expensive and tossing 5 gallon bucket of the stuff is not cheap.
That said, I noticed that once we starting feeding them about 60-70% fermented feed, their droppings became much more formed. We left for several days recently and rather than have a friend feed them the FF every day,I just filled their dry feeder with dry feed. When we returned their dropping pile under the roost looked more sloppy, not formed much at all.
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