Well Crap... More Depressing SS News

[Dunkopf]

I took all of mine out of high risk and switched it to low risk low return after I got my 1st big loss quarterly statement. I'm trying to decide if I should move it around again. I kind of expect the second shoe to drop in the next year.

My Mom lost a whole bunch. I even told her she needed to pull it and put it in a safer fund. She listened to her broker though. Can't really blame her.

 

[Sir Birdaholic]

DANG

How are we going to afford "FORCED HEALTHCARE?"

 

[PineappleMama]

SS is a socialist type program... you're forced to pay into it and then when you reach the government's terms you get some back... same as the retirement in UK IMO... ORIGINALLY it wasn't that way... originally it was an optional retirement plan, just like others that are available today... 401k and such... but then they decided to make it mandatory... and thus "socialized" it.

So... yeah, I can't say I'm 100% against all 'socialist" type things because I still think the folks who've paid in deserve to get what they put in, in good faith, back... don't know though that I think anyone who's never worked can get the check... that'd be a truly socialist system... robs honor from earning your way IMO.

And IMO we aren't getting forced healthcare... there's no CARE involved and I doubt health will have much to do with it either. Democrats were paid (maybe through a PAC, Lobby, Campaign Funds, whatever but they were paid) to pass a law requiring every American to buy this Industry's product... thus drumming up a crapload of business for them... HUGE money. Now those same companies are paying the Republicans to go back through and tone down what the Dems did.... they do NOT want it repealed, they like every citizen being ordered to buy their product or be a criminal... they're drooling for it... but they don't like that pesky little thing where 80% of premiums have to be put back into care/refunded... that's what they want changed... now that they've got the American public bent over the barrel they want to get as much blood as they can... a mere 20% profit isn't enough, even when guaranteed every household is under your thumb.

Dems opened the door and strapped us to the table but it's the Reps that'll be handing them the scalpel for this bloodletting.

 

[darkmatter]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Dh and i go along assuming we won't get it. Then if we do it will be a bonus. Small amounts of money put away when you are young turn into big bucks later. Of course that is assuming the banksters don't destroy the entire economy and make it all vanish overnight. Oh, yeah, that's right, that already happened. The last ten years of our saving might as well have not happened at all.

But, yeah there has been an assumption SS won't last since it was started - the biggest socialist machination ever completed in the US and now everyone complaining about how it won't be there. If you don't believe in socialism then quit expecting it.......

I watched my father retire with a good income from SS and his Union pension along with some personal investment and even a small inheritance from his folks. Twenty years later inflation had eroded his buying power and the Union pension and SS got nibbled away a little "congress legislation" from time to time. The medical system was "just another old man dying" at the end when the assets they could tap was gone. Moral of this story: "Don't trust your retirement to the system" make what arrangements you can to manage your own assets and live a lifestyle within your means.​

 

[PineappleMama]

Quote:
Some of the six smartest words we can all live by and pass on to our kiddos!

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Sorry PM, can't let that one slide. The dems got paid alright. The insurance companies agreed to tone down all the rhetoric against the health bill. In exchange the government agreed to make everyone buy insurance or get an extra tax burden. They did not get paid through PAC money. It wouldn't be fair to require insurance companies to provide insurance to people with existing conditions, if everyone was allowed to go without insurance and then just buy it when something happens. At least they are requiring the insurance companies to keep their profits at 20%. There won't be anyone going to prison over it either. They have more important uses for their cells. "Keeping pot smokers off the streets and stuff like that". It will just be a fine, dependent upon your income and collected out of your tax refund. It will be used to help offset the cost of the plan. Yes it will cause problems if you don't pay it, but not jail problems, unless you are looking for a big fight, that you probably wont win. Besides it doesn't go in to effect for a couple more years.

I think the whole thing stinks too. They should have just done it single payer. The pubs won't be changing it either. They may get the House, but the margin will be so slim it will be easy to veto. In 2012 they will probably lose it again because unemployment didn't get better overnight.

SS would be better if it was just a mandatory investment plan with rules that kept you from pulling the money before age 58 or became disabled. Taxes would be paid just like an IRA. The only difference really would be no withdrawals so that the money is there for you or your survivors when you retire or die. The government would have no access to it.
There would be a minimum payout for those that had no income and would be handled like Welfare.

Of course the big problem is all the trillions of dollars that are already on the books. Nothing is ever easy. Too bad they didn't do it that way in the 1st place.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Sorry PM, can't let that one slide. The dems got paid alright. The insurance companies agreed to tone down all the rhetoric against the health bill. In exchange the government agreed to make everyone buy insurance or get an extra tax burden. They did not get paid through PAC money. It wouldn't be fair to require insurance companies to provide insurance to people with existing conditions, if everyone was allowed to go without insurance and then just buy it when something happens. At least they are requiring the insurance companies to keep their profits at 20%. There won't be anyone going to prison over it either. They have more important uses for their cells. "Keeping pot smokers off the streets and stuff like that". It will just be a fine, dependent upon your income and collected out of your tax refund. It will be used to help offset the cost of the plan. Yes it will cause problems if you don't pay it, but not jail problems, unless you are looking for a big fight, that you probably wont win. Besides it doesn't go in to effect for a couple more years.

I think the whole thing stinks too. They should have just done it single payer. The pubs won't be changing it either. They may get the House, but the margin will be so slim it will be easy to veto. In 2012 they will probably lose it again because unemployment didn't get better overnight.

SS would be better if it was just a mandatory investment plan with rules that kept you from pulling the money before age 58 or became disabled. Taxes would be paid just like an IRA. The only difference really would be no withdrawals so that the money is there for you or your survivors when you retire or die. The government would have no access to it.
There would be a minimum payout for those that had no income and would be handled like Welfare.

Of course the big problem is all the trillions of dollars that are already on the books. Nothing is ever easy. Too bad they didn't do it that way in the 1st place.

ON

 

[PineappleMama]

Agree on that note... and originally it was a retirement thing... voluntary... now it's not. Not that people don't need a retirement plan, absolutely do, but for some that few bucks a week really does mean having a loaf of bread or not so it's hard to say absolutely that it's worth it. Derned if you do and derned if you don't really just depends on your circumstances. Things like that that apply to everyone irregardless of their circumstances often have negative effects... and that doesn't include any of the doomsayer SS will crash, been robbed blah blah at all... but at the same time folks need SOMETHING... so it's just a mess... I honestly don't claim to know what should or shouldn't be done about that stuff... except to leave the funds where they belong, don't detour them to other programs or other people... but other than that... no clue.

The insurance thing though... that scares the crap out of me. We may be able to get the kids on the CHIPS thing... maybe. And DH is covered through work. But the best price we've gotten to cover me is $400/month... when, after paying bills, all that's left is less than $200/month for food, gas in the car, everything that means we'll be criminals (I define a criminal as simply someone who breaks the law) because we cannot afford to obey the law. It's not like the car insurance laws, where if you can't afford it then you just don't drive... you have that choice. It sucks, but there is a choice. With this plan there is no choice. Just breathing is a crime. THAT scares me. And while you can claim X amount on your taxes if you're low income to help offset the costs... can't recall the exact amount but I was thinking it was less than $2000/yr wasn't it? Well that's great and all, but it's not going to do much good for the other $2800/yr that we're expected to pay. For our household it really is a choice between food or insurance. Food will definitely keep us alive, must have. An insurance card MIGHT be needed, MIGHT save your life... rock and a hard place really... a WILL keep you alive vs a MAYBE... I am not a criminal by nature... I don't like the idea of being a criminal... but it's just a fact that we do NOT have $400 laying around to pay these premiums... even with the tax thing it's still a good $200+/month that we don't have... even if we bought NO food at all, sat here starving, we'd still not have enough to pay those premiums... and we'd be starving... not exactly healthy... so what do you do with that? Just accept that you're a criminal... or vote to see something better put into action? I can't lay down and accept that when this goes into effect I'll overnight become a criminal... that makes me ill. And I know there are plenty of other folks in the same boat as us... it's a scary thought that a guy working 60 hours a week... going to school full time, Dean's List for crying out loud, so that he can get a better job... improving himself... that that guy could be tagged and fined as a criminal... there's something seriously wrong with that. Being poor shouldn't be a crime... salt in the wound if you're actually working to dig yourself out of it only to be slapped down.

OHhh question... anyone know how that fine will be labeled? Will it count as ANY sort of reference on a background check or is it 100% protected info and no prospective employer... that could help you get pay enough to no longer break that law... would know? I haven't seen anything about that, and no matter what the answer still nothing can be done to stop it, but it'd be nice to know what's coming.

Whoops... yet another ramble... sorry about that. Least I don't have to worry about offending the OP.

 

[Dunkopf]

It's my understanding that it will be a deduction that you will not get if you don't have a policy. No crime at all. Chances are it will get ruled against at the Supreme Court level anyway. The fine will be a lot cheaper than the insurance and will be on a sliding scale. If you are tight enough financially that you really can't afford 400.00 a month, than you should qualify for help with the cost. Of course it will be a mountain of paperwork.

They should have gone single payer and avoided all this mess.

 

[redhen]

Its a state law in Mass already that you have to carry insurance coverage..
when you file taxes.. you have to show them proof of insurance coverage for that year..
If not..i believe that it affects your state income tax..