Well, It's Official. We're Now In a Depression

[Mom2Cool]

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Exactly morelcabin! it's all cause & effect. & thanks for the tip on the feed...

 

[Carolina Chicken Man]

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Japan, China, and the rest of the Orient own a larger percentage of our financial structure than America itself does. Should they choose to forclose on the outstanding debt we owe them, and assert their ownership in Business Real Estate Holdings, they WOULD own the country. Not Hype, facts.

Little known fact regarding Japan.... their Emperor stated at the close of WWII, you may have beat us now... but we will OWN YOUR COUNTRY in 50 years..... most people in power at the time took it as "sour grapes", but they've come Real Close to making it a reality.

China has already invested so heavily in the States, holds a Major Trade Deficit over us (we owe them the money), and more and more of our day-to-day comsumer products are manufactured in China. Don't believe me? Go look at your kids' toys, or your latest electronics.

Remember 12 years ago when Japan was the "Tiger of the East" and we were all wringing our hands when they were buying all of these landmarks in the US, like the Chrysler Building, Empire State Building, and Pebble Beach Golf Course?

We haven't heard too much about them lately. They have been in a recession for the last 10 years. Their stock market is still 70% lower than it was 10 years ago, and that was before the declines in the last two weeks.

Would anyone like to know why?

Unlike our present situation where we have seen huge declines in housing prices, their problem was commercial real estate. They were building and buying commercial properties all over the world. Their banks were loaning anyone money that came in and asked for it. They were financing 100% of these projects and purchases with no money down.

Sound familiar?

Well, they have since sold the Chrysler Building, Empire State Building, and Pebble Beach back to Americans at huge losses.

It gets even better!!

Their finance minister propose a huge plan to rescue the banks, essentially buy bad debt from them. There was a huge outcry from the public. They wanted no part in bailing out the "fat cat" bankers.

So, the Japanese government did nothing. And Japan has paid dearly for for the last 10 years.

Does this sound familiar?

I think if given more time, a better solution could have been found than the 700 billion dollar bill that was passed. But, rest assured, the government needed to do something. If they had not, things could be a lot worse. They may get worse still, but hopefully we will not still be suffering 10 years from now.

 

[Carolina Chicken Man]

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OHHH MY GOD ... did you watch the news International .....? I'd like to say a lot more, but I do not want to hurt feelings

Your're not going to hurt my feelings.

What is a depression?

 

[beajaeger]

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OHHH MY GOD ... did you watch the news International .....? I'd like to say a lot more, but I do not want to hurt feelings

What safeguards? People are losing their retirements - a fundamental must when one is unable to work anymore. Companies are closing because they don't get credit they need for material and wages... thousands of workers are losing their jobs and ... they can't get a new job. This week 4 companies here closed in NW GA because they didn't get any orders, they can't afford to pay employees with nothing to do, the employees will receive unemployment ... and guess who pays for it???? THE TAX PAYERS

 

[Carolina Chicken Man]

I've lost quite a bit of money in my 401k that's invested in stocks. That's a risk you take when you invest in stocks. Actually, I have not lost any of my money, just gains I've realized over the last 5 years. I'm only 44, so I've got time to recoup that back.

But, I have not lost a nickel of what I have in my local banks savings account. FDIC insurance is one of the safeguards.

More banks failed after the stock market crash in 1929, because there were no restrictions on buying stock on "margin", that's with borrowed money. There are restrictions now on buying stocks with borrowed money now. You think the the housing problems have caused banks to lose money, just imagine with what the stock market has done the last few days, if a lot of that money invested was borrowed.

How many banks have you heard of that have failed? I don't mean investment banks like Godman Sachs, but commercial banks that do checking and savings? None that I know of. Don't count Wachovia, they didn't fail.

After the stock market crash in 1929, 1500-2000 banks a year failed for about 6 years.

No comparision.

I know credit is tight, particularly business.

My mom works for a car dealership, and they are losing their floor plan financing. The other banks that do the retail financing are not letting them handle financing at the dealership anymore. They will still finance a car, but you have to come to the bank branch to get the loan, not at the dealership.

The company I work for buys and redevelops apartmentt complexes. We are having a hard time borrowing money. Our stock was $35 per share last week, it closed at $19 today. So, I know things are bad, and are getting worse.

I just wanted to start a discussion as to what a depression was, and why we are or are not in one.

I will say it again, we most definitely are not in one.

 

[beajaeger]

I really wonder, what would China do if they could not export to the USA all their things sold at WM, Dollar Store, Dollar Tree, Toy's Rus, I mean also all the with lead poisened toys, poisened animal food, baby food, furniture AND AND AND ...........
Is America unable to produce their own products? Is America unable to use the sunshine and the wind for natural energy? We got enough here and it is free. I guess, I am a dreamer, but I will have my solar panels on my roof in spring and give some energy back to our local power company.

 

[BackwoodsMom]

This may have already been said - I tried to read through everything first. I think we as a nation are learning there is a difference between "wants" and "needs."

Our parents (for some their grandparents) didn't think of buying house until they had at least 50-75% of the money saved up. They were content to live in an apartment or stay with their parents.

Parents weren't so quick to shove the kids out the door, of course they wanted them to live on their own but if they were helping around the house and working/going to school it was fine. Families helped each other. Young men and women weren't looked down on if they didn't moved out of their parents' home until they got married. It just made sense (there is something you don't see these days) to help the folks out and save your money.

It was okay to drive a used vehicle - if you had one at all. And if you did buy a new car you drove it until it died. You didn't trade it in every 2-3 years.

People were happy to have a couple nice outfits (church/going to town) and work clothes. They didn't feel the need to have new clothes every season and five different pairs of shoes to go with one outfit.

Fast food wasn't around or just starting to appear so they saved money by cooking at home. Oh and since they were at home for dinner they talked with their kids and knew was was going on with them.

Would it really be so bad to go back to those basics? Don't get me wrong I don't want people to be suffering or doing without necessities. Yet for us as a nation to slow down (less depression, anxiety, stress) and get back to these basics would be a good thing. It would bless the family.

Hope I didn't ramble to much. And on a side note we have started raising our own pigs, chickens and goats to take care of our meat at home. Also we are deer hunters. Our garden wasn't the best this past year - the rain was nice but made getting the garden out hard.

Thank you for letting me share my two bits.

 

[momofdrew]

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AMEN

 

[Carolina Chicken Man]

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Amen to that.
A lot of people have lived beyond their means.
Remember when it was Ok to live in a 3 bedroom 1 bath house that was about 1200 sf?

 

[beajaeger]

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YOU ARE TALKING OUT OF MY SOUL - THANK YOU!