We've heard alot about dogs, but...

[Southern28Chick]

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Really not trying to argue but I have 6 cats. A momma and daddy and their 4 kids (1 girl and 3 boys). Momma and daughter stay inside all the time because they are petite. My boys stay outside during the day. I have over 3 acres and a 250 foot driveway. My cats NEVER go to the road. Cats are territorial and don't roam out of their territory. The only time a cat will leave it's territory is when it's run off my another cat or if it's carried off by a person.

If you see a stray cat roaming on your property it's more than likely a "STRAY"/homeless cat that has no territory.

I love my cats very much, as you can tell because I have SIX. I would not have them outside if I thought they were in danger. People with chickens (including myself) need to have a secure run/yard with a good fence to protect your chickens. If you chose to free range then yes there are LOTS of predators out there and that's risk you are taking. However, cats are NOT NEARLY as destructive as dogs when it comes to the amount of damage they can do to a flock of chickens.

 

[CoyoteMagic]

Yup Spook is a Stumpty-tailed Cattle dog. Born with no tail. Some one tossed her out when she was a few weeks old. She is a Medical Alert/Responce Dog for some medical issues I have.
My kids at school think she's the drug dog, lol

 

[foxtrapper]

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Because they aren't.

There are studies out that disagree with you.

I'd like to see any study that shows that.
Cats play heck on mice and song birds, but that's about it. I've never seen a goat or pig or human taken down by a cat. Sure happens a lot with dogs though. Even poultry have little to fear from cats, but a lot to fear from dogs.

 

[MarkR]

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I have to humbly disagree with you there, Denyse. I have a full time outside cat. I feed him (probably more than the indoor cats) and water him everyday. I've had him since he was 12 weeks old and I lived in an apartment in town (I refer to this as my unfortunate years). He was nuts inside. Ripping screens apart, dismantling a printer (no kidding), peeing all over everything, attacking visitors. When I moved back out of town, he went out the third day and has only been in when it snows.

I leave him out because I do love him so much. I had a chat with my vet about this. He said that most vets reccomend cats stay indoors, but he saw what I had to deal with when Seamus was indoors, and agrees with what I'm doing. He says that a lot of indoor cats have "mental issues". Exactly, what I was going through. Seamus has been out for almost 10 years now. Granted, I've been over the wildlife center more than my fair share with birds and bunnies (the mice and moles I let him keep) that Seamus thought made neat toys (and tasty snacks), but he's slowed down a lot with that sort of thing since he's gotten older. He's never, though, bothered the chickens. I can't say he wouldn't harm chicks, but I keep them inside until they're fairly big anyway. He has his own territory and respects the neighbor cats' territory. All the neighbors know him and like him.

Anyway, I don't think it's a matter of how bonded I am with him. He walks down to the coop with me every morning and evening and sits at a safe distance when I inspect my hive. He helps in the garden and sleeps every afternoon in the lavendar (might be why he doesn't have fleas). The vet says he's one of the healthiest cats he's seen. Some cats just can't take being indoors.

As for this:

usbr wrote:

foxtrapper wrote:

Sherry wrote:

Why don't people think cats are as, or even more, destructive than dogs?

Because they aren't.

There are studies out that disagree with you.

Chickens, cats aren't as big a threat to CHICKENS as dogs. Songbirds. . . different story, though my Scottie has given the local dove population a run for their money.

Mark​

 

[usbr]

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Im sure you would. www.google.com

The facts are that the shear volume of free roaming as well as feral cats out number anything dogs could ever do. Dog kills or mames kid, front page and lead TV news story, cat kills songbird or 9000 birds per year, not even newsworthy (according to reporters). Just because you dont hear about it or see it on the news dont make it not a problem.

I know you will never change your mind but here are a just a few numbers from the Wisconsin Department of Natural Reasourses and the US Humaine Society.

*39-40 million songbirds are killed a year in Wisconsin by feral cats(this does not count game birds that the state relies on for tourism dollars)

*feral cat population in Wisconsin alone is estimated at 1.4 million (this, of course, does not count all the cats that are let to roam free- source, US Humaine Society)

*even pro-cat people admit there is a large problem of feral cats as well as free roaming cats. The only difference you have in the argument is the solution, pro-cat have one solution, anti-cat have a different one. Nowhere is there any debate of if there is actually a cat problem (but you may be a first).

You simply cant make that claim that just because a cat in not on record of killing a human, pig or goat, its a lesser threat. Thats simply apples and oranges. It could be argued that the weight of cat kills far outweighs dog kills. It would be a sucessful argument because its true but a dumb argument at the same time because both dogs and cats loose are bad. Remember your mom saying 2 wrongs dont make a right? Perfect example here, both dogs and cats on the loose are a problem.

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I am not anti-cat or dog but I am anti free roamers weather they are feral or just fluffy/rover running free because the owners think "They are a cat/dog, they like to run around, its what they do." Responcible owners dont let amimals run like that.

 

[mudhen]

MarkR I have to humbly disagree with you there, Denyse. I have a full time outside cat. I feed him (probably more than the indoor cats) and water him everyday. I've had him since he was 12 weeks old and I lived in an apartment in town (I refer to this as my unfortunate years). He was nuts inside. Ripping screens apart, dismantling a printer (no kidding), peeing all over everything, attacking visitors. When I moved back out of town, he went out the third day and has only been in when it snows.

I leave him out because I do love him so much. I had a chat with my vet about this. He said that most vets reccomend cats stay indoors, but he saw what I had to deal with when Seamus was indoors, and agrees with what I'm doing.

Mark

I agree with you, as with everything, there are always exceptions to the rules. Certainly there will always be animals that prefer the outdoors and are better off for it.
In no way do I mean that all people that put their cats out don't have a bond with them.
I supposed I overgeneralized, when I meant to say that cats will follow their instincts (indoors or out). So when they do go after a chick or mouse or rabbit...what else can one expect? It's what they do. So if there are neighbors who have cats outdoors, or if there are feral cats or abandoned cats in the area, one just has to protect their flocks accordingly.
I still am not convinced they are more destructive than dogs however. Yes they can spread disease, but that is more common with feral or abandoned animals, dogs included.
That they kill baby bunnies or squirrels? Sure, but so do other predators, including dogs and snakes.
Bottom line is: responsible pet owner take care of their pets: vaccinations, spay/neuter, shelter/enclosures, etc, and they know where their animal is, indoor or outdoor.​

 

[MarkR]

Bottom line is: responsible pet owner take care of their pets: vaccinations, spay/neuter, shelter/enclosures, etc, and they know where their animal is, indoor or outdoor.

I love this place. We are in agreement Denyse. Well said.

Mark​

 

[foxtrapper]

usbr,

Stop playing stupid troll and read what's written. Not only on the sources you mentioned, but what I and others have said.

I very specifically stated that I knew that cats play heck on songbirds. Saying I will never change my mind and listing that songbirds get eaten by cats just shows you're not reading or thinking, or perhaps both.

Cat's aren't a menace to livestock. You may not like it that they don't take down goats and cattle and deer and children, but that's a basic fact, they don't. Dogs do, quite routinely. That's why as far as livestock and such go, dogs are the menace, cats aren't. That's not an apples and orange thing, that's a basic fact. We're not talking about aerodynamics, or gravitational pull. We're talking about predator problems on livestock with regards to cats and dogs. That's from the original posting in this thread.

 

[AccidentalFarm]

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I love this place. We are in agreement Denyse. Well said.

Mark

I agree. Very well said, indeed. I would add though, that in addition to the above things, proper training (dogs, mostly) from the get-go is a must.

I think the problem with this subject is that this is a chicken board -full of people raising chickens and other larger type livestock. If we were a squirrel or songbird or whatever smallish animal board, cats would be deemed more of a threat. Cats wreck havoc on small animals, mostly ones we do not spend our time and money trying to raise. I doubt many of us have any real idea how many small animals fall victim to our pet cats. Adult chickens do not fit into the small-animal category from a cats perspective. They are prime targets for dogs, though.

I have both cats and dogs, a few of the cats are inside only and a few of the dogs are only outside with supervision. 2 of my cats are outside full-time, and a couple of the dogs are too. The living arrangements for these guys are based on the particular animal. For example, one of my dogs is a veritable Houdini and has escaped every enclosure I've tried so far and has run off multiple times. For this reason he now lives inside and only goes outside under close supervision. This is for his safety and because I have no idea what he does when he runs off.

I guess the point of my ramblings is that the majority of us love all of our animals and base their care and living arrangements on the well being of the particular animal. Dogs are no worse than cats as far as being a fierce predator...it just seems so because dogs are capable of harming the livestock we try to keep. Cats prey on the other things we don't necessarily try to keep. I'd much rather know that my cats don't kill anything when outside, but of course they do. Just like they'd kill a mouse in the house (we'd praise them for that), they kill them outside too. Imagine if chickens were a nuisance animal...we'd love our dogs for hunting them down.

 

[mudhen]

Stop playing stupid troll and read what's written.

Now, now everyone...no one is a troll, we are all just expressing our opinions.
That's what's so cool about this forum. You get a lot of people's perspectives on just about any subject matter. It's pretty interesting to see things from other people's points of view. Doesn't mean we have to change ours or theirs.
So let's just accept the differences and hakuna matata...you know?​