What are YOUR experiences on how Dogs have changed??

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Here's something that might make this discussion more interesting. This is a theory I was told by a Behaviorist I used to work for, this person is well educated and is also a breeder of two different breeds. Not only does she compete successfully in the conformantion ring but her two breeds also do trials-- and win. She knows her stuff and has written well recieved books on dog behavior and training...

Now with all that said, this is a theory she once told me and the other trainers working for her. Now mind you, read with an open mind. I haven't tested her theory, but it make sense to me, though, again, I don't show in conformation so idk....

Theory: In purebred dogs, abnormally assertive body language has been bred into them because of conformation showing selecting dogs with overly confident body language. Upright ears, head, tense neck, back and tail postures are desireable in almost all breeds. These traits that can be taught to a dog, are even more likely to become genetic as breeders choose pups that show these posture traits naturally. This might very well correlate with more assertiveness and could also contribute to more aggression seen in many purebred dogs.

Think about it. What comes to mind? Do you think this is hokey or does it have a ring of truth or probability to it?

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

I believe it.

The Russian breeding foxes to be tame noted that breeding for temperament only also forced a changed in tail length an fur color in all breeding groups.

 

[Chickhick]

"Upright ears, head, tense neck, back and tail postures are desireable in almost all breeds."

I compete in conformation, and I know this not to be true. My breed standards most definitely say they should NOT have these traits. Neither Coonhounds nor Anatolians should have upright ears. Neither should any of the Spaniels, nor Setters, nor Scottish Deerhounds, nor Salukis, nor ...

 

[punk-a-doodle]

In purebred dogs, abnormally assertive body language has been bred into them because of conformation showing selecting dogs with overly confident body language.

I can buy parts of it. As Rebel said, the tame fox project brought out certain behaviors and traits that appear to be linked to domestication and docile behavior, or alternatively, aggressive behavior as extremely aggressive foxes were also bred. Some of the tame foxes eventually went on to be born with floppy ears, and there is a long time theory that floppy ears is generally a sign of more docile animals in everything from cows to rabbits. However, 'rage syndrome' appeared in both show lines and more commonly in dogs with certain coat colors and solid patterns, even though cockers and springers have floppy ears, so I think theories like that can be oversimplified when people take it to mean floppy ears always equals docile natures, perk ears always equals aggression, as gene expression is more complicated than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_syndrome At any rate, people speculated with rage syndrome that because show dogs are bred to have an air of confidence, that is why this could be traced back through show lines. I don't know if I buy the more simplistic assertive dogs=sporadic aggression statement though. I don't think we know enough about mental illness and abnormalities that cause sudden shifts in consciousness to really draw conclusions yet. I mentioned before that we had to euthanize an adopted Australian shepherd mix, who was showing unpredictable and severe outbursts of aggression that were worsening, caused by partial seizures. He was not assertive during his outbursts, but rather cringed and laid back his ears and rolled over after these attacks while whining and whimpering. For him, they were fear based, as it is not uncommon for partial seizures to cause an overwhelming emotion during and even before and after the seizure, and extreme fear is a common emotion in these. This kind of seizure disorder is beginning to be tested for within the breed, finally, after years of actively turning a blind eye to it. Unfortunately, we have found many others with Aussies or Aussie mixes who had the same problem, with degenerative seizures (eventually grand mals occurred as well though there was no overt behavioral shift with these) that did not respond to conventional treatment. As with the Springers, these are often extremely sweet and obedient dogs who just seem to "snap" out of nowhere. I believe 'rage syndrome' is still even less understood than partial seizure aggression (or epilepsy in general), so I can't personally say that assertive show dogs is the cause, rather than, say, ignoring health issues in favor of looks. Sorry, did that all even make any sense? Clarity is not my friend right now.​

 

[flower]

I have not read the entire thread yet because I do not even know what GSD stands for ?

 

[punk-a-doodle]

German Shepherd Dog.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
Ok you're right about that. But these breeds most certainly will have a more tense ear posture that changes when alerted or interested in something. All breeds are capable of having ear posture that changes.

I don't mind if you disagree with the theory at all, just wanted to clear that up.

 

[carolinagirl58]

Anatolians are not expected to act like regular show dogs in the ring. They are not supposed to look animated or prancy and they are not expected to stack. They are not even expected to allow a judge to insect their teeth...although the handler must display them when asked. Different expectations for different breeds.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
Eh ok...but generally they are animated, or assertive with how they show....but anyway I do love the responses I am getting which is why I asked the question

 

[carolinagirl58]

Quote:
Eh ok...but generally they are animated, or assertive with how they show....but anyway I do love the responses I am getting which is why I asked the question

I guess the best way I can descirbe how they move in the ring is cool and laid-back confidance. Not shy acting or plodding along by any means, but they don't really care about putting on a good show and they often won't bait for food so they don't stack well. They are normally somewhat wary of strangers and that's acceptable. They are moved around the ring on a loose lead, with them more at your side than prancing in front like many breed do. They move like a working dog who is out of his element, which they are. And since the judges know this is how this dog is, it's all acceptable. Now a dog who is more animated will probably do better in the judging than one who is laid back, all other things being equal, just because it puts on a better show.