What do you breed to get sizzles What do you breed to get frizzles? Confused

[Sonoran Silkies]

Sizzle=one silkie and one frizzle(usually a cochin)
Frizzle=one smooth feathered bird(any breed) and one frizzle(usually cochin)

Frizzled polish are as common as frizzled cochin.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

I have read alot of different threads but just want to get this right so I know what I need for spring breeding program.
What roo and hen will produce sizzles and what roo and hen will produce frizzles? thanks in advance

Instead of reinventing the wheel, acquire sizzles and breed them for sizzles. Frizzle occurs in all breeds. For best results stay within the breed.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
I believe the frizzle gene gets passed on, so one carrying the gene but has smooth feathers can produce frizzled off-spring. I am still learning the whole genetic passing stuff, so hopefully someone with more knowledge on this will chime in.
Short answer is no; long answer is it is complicated, and there are two genes responsible for frizzling: an incompletely dominant gene that frizzles the feathers, and a recessive gene that unfrizzles them.

Frizzle should be visually apparent if it is present.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:

 

[Albanydog]

No. A bird with one copy of frizzle will pass it to only half its offspring. Generally, if you don;t see frizzle, it is not present. A sizzle has all silkie features except for feathering. Cochins are often used in the breeding of sizzles, but not exclusives, and once they have provided the frizzle gene, they are done. A frizzle from a dofferent breed can provide the gene as well.

Wow, that was not my understanding, I was told all the chicks would have the gene but only half would appear Frizzle. Guess I need to research again because I have been going under that information for a long time. Thanks for the info!

 

[Albanydog]

I found this information about breeding frizzles:

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post25493

Originally Posted By: R.Okimoto
Breeding Frizzle to Frizzle is something that you should not do unless you are able to euthanize the homozygotes. Most people call it culling. Frizzle is a phenotype where the heterozygotes are what you want. This just means that if you breed two frizzles together you will get 1/4 that are homozygous for frizzle and 1/2 that are the heterozygotes that you want, the remaining 1/4 is normal feathered. The homozygous birds often have weak feathers and the tend to break off. The birds do not have effective feather cover and most people cull them.

You can avoid producing these homozygotes and still end up with 1/2 of the progeny frizzled like you want by crossing the frizzle birds to the normal ones that you usually get in a mating. If you do this mating you get 1/2 normals and 1/2 frizzles and should have no problem maintaining your line.

The caveat is that the fastest way to breed the type of evenly frizzled bird that you might want for show is to breed the best looking frizzle birds together. If you breed to a normal feathered bird you are going to be less likely to get the type of bird that you want because you can't tell if the normal bird has the modifiers that you need to make a well frizzled bird. You have to be able to cull. If you eat your birds this should be no problem.

AND THIS:
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post25699

Originally Posted By: R.Okimoto
Frizzle is mostly penetrant and incompletely dominant. Most frizzle birds are heterozygous (Ff). There is a frizzle repressor segregating in some stocks that block the expression of frizzle so that the feathers are only slightly curled or not curled at all. This is a totally different gene or genes. Polish may or may not have the frizzle repressor.

If Polish do not have the repressor all you have to do is cross a frizzle bird to Polish and select the half of the progeny that are frizzled and cross them again to Polish. If you select the best Polish frizzle looking birds of each backcross to Polish you should have a good Polish type by the 5th backcross generation. If Polish have the repressor you may have to cross the backcross progeny together and select the best frizzle progeny to cross back to Polish and repeat (backcross, intercross, backcross).

You do not want to produce homozygous frizzle birds because they do not survive very well. If you cross frizzle to nonfrizzle you will produce 1/2 frizzle and 1/2 nonfrizzle. This type of cross keeps producing the two parent types and you won't have to deal with birds that you have to euthanize. The problem is that this is not a very good way to select for the best frizzle types and breed the best frizzle lines. To do that you have to select the best frizzled birds to cross together. This produces 1/4 FF and 1/4 ff culls with 1/2 of the progeny being Ff that you can select from for future breeders.

 

[Albanydog]

Now this website http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Friz/WhatMakesFriz.html says:
"Frizzle breeding is simple: use the smooth half-Frizzle pullets that come out each year. Use a good male Frizzle on these smooth half-Frizzle females and you have the battle won, as far as it goes for keeping good curl on the head feathers and the body feathers. "

Everyone seems to have a different opinion???

I have been breeding a smooth frizzled White Cochin rooster to these hens:
Smooth frizzle White Cochin hen
White Cochin hen
Black Cochin hen
Buff Cochin hen
Black Frizzle Cochin hens
Black Sizzle hen. This "Sizzle" hen (five toes, black skin, frizzled feathers with the extra head feathers) came from this same pen of "purebred" birds but the rooster at the time was a double frizzle rooster. Obviously, the breeder lied about the "purebred" status of at least one of the birds listed above. I didn't even have Silkies on the farm at the time she was hatched.

The pen listed above produces only about 1/3 frizzle chicks, no 5 toes Sizzle and to my knowledge no Frackles, Frazzles, Super Frizzle or Double Frizzles (what-ever-you-want-to-call-them)
When the Double Frizzle Rooster was in this pen instead of the smooth frizzled rooster we averaged slightly higher then 50/50 chicks.

I got a Red Frizzle Cochin Rooster at the Fall Poultry Swap this year so I am hoping to breed him to a few of the girls and see what I get percentage wise.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Dr. Ron Okimoto is one of the most well known and highly regarded Poultry Geneticists in the world.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Now this website http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Friz/WhatMakesFriz.html says:
"Frizzle breeding is simple: use the smooth half-Frizzle pullets that come out each year. Use a good male Frizzle on these smooth half-Frizzle females and you have the battle won, as far as it goes for keeping good curl on the head feathers and the body feathers. "

Everyone seems to have a different opinion???

I have been breeding a smooth frizzled White Cochin rooster to these hens:
Smooth frizzle White Cochin hen
White Cochin hen
Black Cochin hen
Buff Cochin hen
Black Frizzle Cochin hens
Black Sizzle hen. This "Sizzle" hen (five toes, black skin, frizzled feathers with the extra head feathers) came from this same pen of "purebred" birds but the rooster at the time was a double frizzle rooster. Obviously, the breeder lied about the "purebred" status of at least one of the birds listed above. I didn't even have Silkies on the farm at the time she was hatched.

The pen listed above produces only about 1/3 frizzle chicks, no 5 toes Sizzle and to my knowledge no Frackles, Frazzles, Super Frizzle or Double Frizzles (what-ever-you-want-to-call-them)
When the Double Frizzle Rooster was in this pen instead of the smooth frizzled rooster we averaged slightly higher then 50/50 chicks.

I got a Red Frizzle Cochin Rooster at the Fall Poultry Swap this year so I am hoping to breed him to a few of the girls and see what I get percentage wise.

You do not mention the number of frizzled black cochin hens, so for tjhis example, let's assume just one, and we will ignore the unfrizzling modifier gene. That would give you four non-frizzled hens and two that are frizzled. Assuming that each bird has two chicks fathered by the rooster, Of the 12 chicks, 8 have no possibility of being frizzled. The other four have a 50/50 chance of being frizzled or not. So all four could be frizzled, all four not frizzled or one, two or three could be frizzled. Probability with these numbers does equal 1/3 frizzled chicks. The more chicks you hatch, the closer your actuality will match the probability.

Polydactyly does no always express, but black skin and crest should. Is there is a possibility that the hen was still fertile from a previous rooster when the sizzle egg was laid?