What do you look for in Serama chicks and adults?

[redbone]

I've read all the usual stuff about weight, stance, and such but I'm wondering what are real people like you looking for in your serama chickens? Is there any way to pick chicks? How do you discern if a chick is 100% serama when picking them out?


Lastly, I can see some differences here:

http://www.jerrysseramasllc.com/malaysian.htm
http://www.jerrysseramasllc.com/breeders.htm

The Malaysian seem to be smaller and have a more profound stance... larger chest and more upright compared to "Jerry's Cocks". Whats up with that?

Anything else you can think of would be helpful.

Thanks!

 

[SeramaLife]

The things I look for in order of importance are:
Tail carried vertically
Wing carried vertically
Length of back
Temperament
Breast (fullness)

In chicks it is extremely hard to tell how they will turn out. The first thing that can be told is length of back. Tail carriage is next. I just prefer to wait until they mature more to tell. Then I can be sure. It is hard to tell crossed chicks. In adults, Beware chickens with long backs(possible OEG crosses), over 90 degree tails(Possible Japenese bantam crosses), and especially large size. Some really good seramas are large, so don't pick birds for just one bad trait. No chicken is perfect. If you are unsure, get a picture and ask an experienced breeder. Don't buy from an unknown breeder sight unseen. Insist on pictures.
For the Maylasian serama, here is an article copied from scnaonline.org with permission:


American Serama / Malaysian Serama
By J.P. Lawrence and B. Fuller

It seems that lately there has been some confusion regarding what the Malaysian Serama and the American Serama are. The purpose of this article is to aid people in understanding what these labels mean in relation to the Serama.

In Malaysia, these bantams are called Ayam Serama. Under this name, there are several different types or styles which Malaysians also use in reference to their birds. Some of these styles include, but are not limited to, Slim, Apple, Ball, and Dragon. Each of these styles has a distinctly different look to them. Note that there is no reference to Malaysian Serama or American Serama as styles or types within Malaysia itself.

For those unfamiliar with Malaysian Ayam Serama types, the following is a brief description of each of the types mentioned: Slim is a relatively tall, slender bird with a very small breast. This type looks as though it could fit into a cylinder without problem. Ball are quite round in appearance. The legs are short and the wings are not held at vertical, but closer to 45 degrees or less, due to wing and leg length. The breast is as large as it can be given the anatomy of the bird. Apple isn't as intuitive. The breast on the Apple Serama is a bit lower and larger and the legs on this type are medium in length. Dragons are the "extreme" Serama. Their head is held so far back that, on some individuals, the breast is actually held higher than the head. Wings are held vertically, and legs tend to be medium to short in length.

The Serama was imported into the U.S. in 2000 and at that time was widely referred to as the Malaysian Serama, denoting its country of origin. Upon its inception in 2002, the Serama Council of North America (SCNA) created a standard to which breeders within the organization would breed their birds. This is where the terminology American Serama came in. American Serama does not refer to Serama from America, but Serama of American type. The founders of SCNA wrote the standard to be a combination of two types, those being the Apple and the Slim types. Since references like Slim Apple Serama would invoke further confusion, we at SCNA felt it appropriate to refer to this type as the American Serama, as it was a type developed here in the U.S. We felt it necessary to choose one type and stay with it as Serama in Malaysia have evolved greatly, which you can see from the reference to the various types found there.

Since the term American Serama came into being, there is now reference to Malaysian Serama as well within the United States. This has led to a certain amount of confusion because some breeders refer to Malaysian Serama as Serama of Malaysian type rather then Serama from Malaysia. Malaysian Serama referring to type consists of a breed that is similar to the American Serama, but differs as a shorter- legged, longer- winged bird, which is more a combination of the ball and slim type. At this time, the Serama in the U.S. are in their infancy in the development of type and there is some difficulty in distinguishing between the American and Malaysian types. In five years, that will change and the types will be notably discernable.

Most people, at the moment, refer to Malaysian Serama as Serama from Malaysia. I know of several breeders that refer to their birds as Malaysian Serama, but actually breed American Serama. I have done that on occasion. You can see why there might be some confusion regarding names.

Throughout this article you've seen me speak of nothing but type; one further difference does exist between the types within their standards. The SCNA standard recognizes the A, B, and C classes, other standards simply recognize A and B classes. The SCNA currently recognizes three class sizes because we do not want to limit ourselves at this time to possible non-viable weights, such as may be occurring within the Micro-A's. In turn, breeding larger Serama outside of the C class is not promoted and is strongly discouraged. As stated before, the American Serama is in its infancy and all genetic potential must be considered in order to build the birds which best fit our standard. The current classes as defined by that standard make the best use of that genetic potential at this time. SCNA will ultimately lower their size classes to one class in order to prepare for eventual acceptance into the APA and ABA, but presently feels that it is more important to perfect the American Serama type first.

I hope that this clears some confusion when someone refers to one of these tiny birds as a Malaysian Serama or an American Serama. For more information on the American Serama and its progress in America, please visit SCNA at www.scnaonline.org. A forum and further information are available so that you may ask any questions regarding this fantastic breed.





Hope that helps

 

[redbone]

I appreciate your response. I've skimmed through that article that you pasted in, but don't think I read every detail. I did this time and it did help... sort of. Some of what is being said is nothing but semantics and I don't know if I would agree with the reason behind renaming or "reinventing the wheel" so to speak. They are being treated as if the laws of naturalization as it pertains to the United States Constitution. Heh.

Anyway, I do appreciate you chiming in.


I recently bought some Serama chicks. I estimate them being about 2-3 weeks old now. Some are definitely smaller than the others and already show what I would like to call distinct traits of a serama in regards to wings pointing down and tail feathers up.... even though the tail feathers are probably 3/8".

I noticed tonight that a couple of them had hints of leg feathers. Is this a cross with something else or does this happen in Seramas sometimes? All the other chicks have clean yellow legs.

Last question for the night... are there any "Dragon" type or similar to this type Seramas in the US? The video's I see on youtube like:

Are those "Dragon" type? If so... thats the kind I'd LOVE to have!!!! They way they stand is absolutely amazing.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[SeramaLife]

Feathered legs occasionally occur naturally in seramas. It has not been bred out completely yet. I don't know of any dragon type seramas in the US. They are so extreme that many cannot breed. Can you imagine the seramas in those videos mounting hens?

 

[redbone]

Heh. True, that would be awkward to see them mount. I may not be looking for that extreme... but some characteristics like that would be awesome. If anyone knows of any, please shoot me a message!

Its crazy how we always want what we can't get.

Glad to know that some feathered legs still occur. I was afraid that some were crossed.

I need to build a couple more coops in my barn because some of these chicks, like I said before, have some distinctive traits already evident. One coop for what I'd like to see breeding and another for a "cull coop".

I just saw this:

http://www.ovabid.com/detail.asp?id=17678

A couple of those pose pretty good. I might have to visit that guy the next time I head down I65.

 

[BluegrassSeramas]

This is as close as we have gotten...
Mr. Wonderful (small A class, fertile)

but most look like this...

There are just not enough birds here to get the extreme dragon blood needed and it hard to find true breeders near you to work on selectively breeding to get to that point. If we could all get together...maybe!!

Who knows what the birds that Jerry brought back were like. Maybe no dragon types? Maybe his were all slim/apple types...?? That is what he breeds toward...
We just have to work with what we have, and it gets continually harder as some breeders dilute the blood with crossbreeding.

Just keep reading and talking to breeders redbone, and then show us some pics!!!

 

[redbone]

BluegrassSeramas,

Thats what I'm all about... working together. I've had small bantams off and on for several years. Last fall I aquired some stock from a flock of BB Reds that turned white 18 years ago on my Grandfather's farm in MS. They started off being just the normal BB Reds that you see, then a white one popped out. He started breeding this white hen and seperating the white ones out and eventually ended up with a whole flock of white BB Reds. The only color is a little brown on the tips of the back feathers. Here is some pictures of mine: http://picasaweb.google.com/rsteagall/20090526# (ignore the boat pics). I'm mentioning this because I understand what can be accomplished with a little patience and discipline.

I got into Seramas only recently after accidentally seeing an advertisement for some Serama eggs on Craigslist in Clarksville, TN. I did a little research and thought they were interesting. So, I drove up there this past weekend and traded 4 of my white bb reds and a little cash for 13 serama chicks. They are all the same age, but are very different in size, color, and posture even at 2-3 weeks old. I need to get the breeder to write me the whole story about them, but from what I remember she got them in 2002-2003 and has done a good job of keeping them seperate and introducing new blood from time to time by buying more serama eggs and hatching them. With the care this Serama flock was given, I do no believe there was much or any crossbreeding. However, I wasn't 100% certain after noticing a very small amount of feathers on the legs of 2 of the chicks...thus the original purpose of this thread. I'm excited to see what they look like in a few months.

Like you said, if we work together... I believe we are in a good geographic location to make something good happen. There are a few people in Middle Tennessee, East Tennessee, Kentucky, and Northern Alabama all with Seramas.

Thanks for sharing your pictures. Mr Wonderful is a pretty amazing bird and I'd love to see more like that in circulation.

I look forward to getting some pictures up here of my chicks in the next week and possibly meeting you one day.

Ryan
Rockvale, TN

 

[BluegrassSeramas]

Awesome Ryan. Ill send Mr.W your complements. Thank you! Glad to have another breeder on board.
Are genetics not amazing?! White BB reds!
Some Serama breeders are trying to do the same to reproduce the dominant white gene to help us get closer to ABA acceptance.
Can't wait to see your birds. Have you considered joining the Yahoo! group Seramas?
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Seramas/?yguid=232724360
or SE seramas?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SESerama/?yguid=232724360

There is plethora of great information to be found there! Maybe you can have some more questions answered there by reading the archive messages.

Im curious as to the type of your chicks parents. What did you think about them? Maybe if you can contact that person again, they may send you pictures of the parents. I love to have pictures for the records to see what birds come from and what they produce!
It would be great to meet with you too and have a melding of the minds!
Maybe in the fall we can organize a trip to the Columbus Nationals and see the Serama show there?

 

[redbone]

I'm going to start building my new coop tomorrow for the serama chicks. I'll try to take some pictures of them tomorrow. FYI, it looks like I'm going to have 1 solid white Serama. I don't know if its gonna be a hen or a roo yet... but it is solid white.

I joined both groups as you suggested. Thanks.

I'm contacting the seller of the chicks and going to try and get pictures of the parents. I'll share those when I get them.

Talk soon,
Ryan

 

[CindyS]

I actually would not want to breed the extreme dragon types. They just look uncomfortable. I had some fantail pigeons and I had to get rid of them I just dont like that jerking hidden head look.