What do you look for in Serama chicks and adults?

[idahodebra]

Redbone,

You write:
"Anyway, I just wish that the information found at http://www.scnaonline.org/standards_and_judging.php as it is TODAY was TRUELY what breeders were trying to do. Right now, I do not believe this to be the case."

I am curious what makes you believe that most good breeders *aren't* striving towards these standards? The original imports that Jerry received weren't "top quality" Seramas. In fact, I believe I read that he describes many of them as being "junk". They have come a long way in working with them, and in narrowing down a "standard" that most agree to work towards. However, everybody is, essentially, working within the same small gene pool of the original imports, and many of the more extreme characteristics like very large breast and no back, aren't gong to be as easily found as it is in the very large gene pool Malaysian breeders draw from. Not only that, but Seramas have many wild card genetic traits that make breeding them quite tricky, as they don't follow all of the rules. Plus, they have several lethal genes. I don't think it is a matter of breeders not trying to breed towards a certain way, but that it takes a long time to get there.

Enjoy your new babies, but realize that it takes several months before you can really see what "type" they will have. They also don't often feather out anything to do with their down color. They can keep surprising you for months, and that is half the fun

Debra

 

[redbone]

Debra,


I'd like to take these 3 articles (web pages) and compare a couple of the more important traits:

http://www.jerrysseramasllc.com/american.htm
http://www.scnaonline.org/standards_and_judging.php
http://www.scnaonline.org/art3.php


First off, I've not seen the statement yet where Jerry referred to the breed as being "junk". I'd like to read more on that if you have a link. I have seen per the page above that Jerry's "original flock consisted of 105 hens and 35 cocks gathered and selected from throughout Malaysia and are from the finest line of Champions in the world, direct descendents of Sri Pinang, Riting Mass and Angkat. These birds were line bred by the foremost Serama breeder in Malaysia, Pennang Chooi. Mr. Chooi has breed more champions than any other Serama breeder in the world." By this statement, I do not think that the breed even at its first importation was ever "junk". In fact, this statement of "finest line of Champions in the world" leads me to believe that the breed was very refined by Malaysians and refined enough to warrant a desire for someone to go through the trouble of importation to the US.

Here is what we know about Malaysian types according to the pages listed above:

1. Slim: is a relatively tall, slender bird with a very small breast. This type looks as though it could fit into a cylinder without problem.

2. Ball are quite round in appearance. The legs are short and the wings are not held at vertical, but closer to 45 degrees or less, due to wing and leg length. The breast is as large as it can be given the anatomy of the bird.

3. Apple isn't as intuitive. The breast on the Apple Serama is a bit lower and larger and the legs on this type are medium in length.

4. Dragons are the "extreme" Serama. Their head is held so far back that, on some individuals, the breast is actually held higher than the head. Wings are held vertically, and legs tend to be medium to short in length.


The SCNA has stated that they are breeding toward a type of "Slim Apple Serama" that they are calling the "American Serama" to reduce confusion. This means to me that they are trying to breed a bird that is relatively tall that has a breast lower and smaller than a Malaysian Apple Type with medium length legs. This is the best definition that I'm able to give with the information that I've read. Comparing the articles above, here are a couple of things I find in them that are conflicting:

Breast & Back:
-http://www.scnaonline.org/standards_and_judging.php states that the breast is highly lifted, well developed, full, carried prominently forward beyond the vertical line drawn from point of beak, broad and well rounded, from head to neck to breast – S shaped profile. The back definition on this page is short, broad, in profile, shaped like a 'V' with neck and tail forming the vertical sides.

-http://www.scnaonline.org/art3.php states that the overall type of the American serama is a compromise between the "slim" form and the "apple" form. That general outline is a large V with the foot as the apex, the breast as the front line and the back of the tail as the back line of the V. There is no mention of a 'S' profile, however the V as described consists of the whole bird from breast to foot to tail

-http://www.jerrysseramasllc.com/american.htm states that the breast be a bit lower (not highly lifted) as per his definition of Apple Type. I didn't see anything about the back on this page.

Look at the picture by Catherine Stanevich that I posted earlier. This IMO matches perfectly to the S shaped profile and matches the standards and Judging definition. If you look at Jerry's flock http://www.jerrysseramasllc.com/breeders.htm you will see more of the 'V' type as described in the article by Brian Reeder - A Discussion on the American Serama Hows and Whys. In the end I like Jerry's definition of the Slim and Apple Serama, but if you combine these to make the American Serama... the look being achieved (even in Jerry's flock) is not what the definition would equal. Some, yes, but not most. It is more like the description that Brian Reeder gives with the whole bird having a "V" profile. Personally I feel the standards and judging page more closely resembles Malaysian Serama Cocks http://www.jerrysseramasllc.com/malaysian.htm . I think I might email Jerry directly to try and get a few pictures from him of what he considers to be ideal to what the SCNA has dictated what the Western taste might be... or at least Jerry's personal taste.

Maybe I'm not getting the full idea, but what I'm seeing (in pictures) that the top breeders are breeding tend to be reducing the traits that originally intrigued importers (Jerry and whoever else may have imported some) enough to have the desire to go through the original troubles of importing these birds to the US.

Please share your thoughts. Does anyone find this information conflicting?

Lastly, yes I'm excited to see what the weeks will bring. I hope its like a box of chocolates!

-Ryan

 

[redbone]

The first 4 seconds of this video lead me to believe that the "extreme" dragon type is more of a stance that the chicken actually LIKES to do and isn't so much physical as it is just simply how the chicken wants to pose.

In the first few seconds, the chicken walks normal and then puffs up on his own free will. I've seen this in several videos. I just think they simply like to show off! Thoughts on that?

-Ryan

 

[BluegrassSeramas]

I'll have to make this quick and get back to the rest later--Im finishing a paper!
I've seen that video before..I think you can hear a click sort of sound when the birds gets out of pose, then after the noise, goes back into pose.
Surely this is the show training the SCNA speaks of when they tell you to start as soon as your birds "show confidence"? Where you rub their throat to get them to hold their head back and chest out...

They have it down over there! That's what I think!
Its like when you clicker train a trick horse.....

I think that its very possible the dragons are part type and part trained. Surely you may get some of the most extreme true dragons when you breed, but they do not look like they would survive well........

BUT--- they ARE in the hands of humans, and we have had animals doing many incapable things for enjoyment for a long time!

Back soon!!