What do you think about GM?

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Its not that I'm anxious to see it happen. The death of GM would be tragic. But boyd, it's how a free market works. It's simply capitalism. If you fail, then you fail. Someone else comes along and takes over. Someone else would of risen GM out of the ashes, had they filed bankruptcy on their own without government intervention.

Here's a little story. When Henry Ford came out with his cars, there was a young man who was at the top of his industry at the time. His industry was the carriage and buggy industry. With the arrival of Ford's cars on the scene, his buggy industry was crippled. He went bankrupt. No one bailed him out, despite the fact that until cars became so readily available his company was HUGE in the transportation department. What did this young man do when his business went bankrupt? Did he pettion the gov't for a bailout? Did he apply for welfare? Nope.... Ever hear of William Durant ??? HE was that young man....and he went on to found General Motors.

When you take the risk out of the free market, when you allow gov't to deem some businesses too big to fail, then it's not a free market...

And for those of you hung up on terms.... LOL, technically it's neither socialim, as I said, nor communism, but fascism. At this point America is now a Fascist country.

What is facism? This is a quote in part (the economic part) from wikipedia on the definition of fascism. If you would like to read more about it....here's the link.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

&quot
; Fascist governments nationalized some key industries, managed their currencies and made some massive state investments.[citation needed] Fascist governments introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic interventionist measures.[156]

Other than nationalization of certain industries, private property was allowed, but property rights and private initiative were contingent upon service to the state.[157] For example, "an owner of agricultural land may be compelled to raise wheat instead of sheep and employ more labor than he would find profitable."[158] According to historian Tibor Ivan Berend, dirigisme was an inherent aspect of fascist economies.[159] The Labour Charter of 1927, promulgated by the Grand Council of Fascism, stated in article 7: "The corporative State considers private initiative, in the field of production, as the most efficient and useful instrument of the Nation", then goes on to say in article 9: "State intervention in economic production may take place only where private initiative is lacking or is insufficient, or when are at stakes the political interest of the State. This intervention may take the form of control, encouragement or direct management."[160]

Fascists thought that private property should be regulated to ensure that "benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual."[161] They also introduced price controls and other types of economic planning measures.[156]"



Based on the above definition, who here can say that we're NOT a facist cuntry?
 
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Yotetrapper, I agree with 95% of that... but it isn't capitalism, not truely. The governments meddling with the financially industry caused this current recession. Too many hands in the pot at once. For a truly capitalist nation, the government needs to step back from all industry, not buying up interests in all the Financial, Insurance or Industrial base. They now control the majority of American jobs either directly or indirectly. I just hope we all can pull together as a nation. It would be foolish for us to extend ourselves further with another war or two, but that seems to be the way the world is going.

Hoping for positive outcome.
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I agree the government caused it. But because they caused it, does that justify them meddling further by trying to "save" what they ruined? I dont think it does.
 
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Maybe everyone was asleep. You already had this. All these companies were getting ready to go bankrupt before Obama got elected. The pubs blamed Clinton for 911 but whats good for the goose is never good for the gander especially when it comes to the pubs. Of course the party will be a footnote in history soon. Capitalism was bound to crash and burn. The system is too heavily weighted in favor of too few. Don't worry too much about it. If your under 60 you may live long enough to see a better America emerge. Growing pains are tough.

I bet Jesus was a socialist. He made fish and bread out of nothing and it worked for him. Give Obama a chance, maybe he has connections.
 
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Maybe everyone was asleep. You already had this. All these companies were getting ready to go bankrupt before Obama got elected. The pubs blamed Clinton for 911 but whats good for the goose is never good for the gander especially when it comes to the pubs. Of course the party will be a footnote in history soon. Capitalism was bound to crash and burn. The system is too heavily weighted in favor of too few. Don't worry too much about it. If your under 60 you may live long enough to see a better America emerge. Growing pains are tough.

I bet Jesus was a socialist. He made fish and bread out of nothing and it worked for him. Give Obama a chance, maybe he has connections.

Wow, I am quoting this now so it can't be edited by anyone else other than a MOD.... WOW

Taking a poke at IJohn because he said we voted for this?!?! Guess what, they voted for Ronald Reagan, William Clinton, George Bush (JR & SR) and Barrack Obama.....

Jesus a socialist? and your line give obama a chance, maybe he has connections.......... Really? Thats how he got elected wasn't it?.
 
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Beak, what reports are you reading? As of yesterday on CNN's website... they are expecting to be bringing back a bit of work...... unless you are talking about the cars we build in other countries and sell there??

Opel will be getting a bailout from the German government, and they are jointly owned by American as well as European interests........

I would love to read up more on your point of view beak.

I've heard reports on the radio and also heard a senator denouncing it. I'm sure we will all hear more about it if it comes about. However like most stories, it will probably not bear fruit. It probably has about 10x as much validity as the stories about gun control that you hear. In other words low probability. I hope it is low. It irks me every time I hear about another corporation going overseas for cheap labor to make their profits larger. Then they come back with a bunch of BS about taxes.
 
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I believe in systems that work. Pure socialism doesn't work but democratic socialism does. Look at Sweden. Free market is a joke too and quite obviously doesn't work. Unfortunately corporations know what strings to pull on people to make them blind to what is best for them and put more money in the stockholders pockets. So yes I believe in democratic socialism. I'm allowed to do that right.
 
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Maybe everyone was asleep. You already had this. All these companies were getting ready to go bankrupt before Obama got elected. The pubs blamed Clinton for 911 but whats good for the goose is never good for the gander especially when it comes to the pubs. Of course the party will be a footnote in history soon. Capitalism was bound to crash and burn. The system is too heavily weighted in favor of too few. Don't worry too much about it. If your under 60 you may live long enough to see a better America emerge. Growing pains are tough.

I bet Jesus was a socialist. He made fish and bread out of nothing and it worked for him. Give Obama a chance, maybe he has connections.

Wow, I am quoting this now so it can't be edited by anyone else other than a MOD.... WOW

Taking a poke at IJohn because he said we voted for this?!?! Guess what, they voted for Ronald Reagan, William Clinton, George Bush (JR & SR) and Barrack Obama.....

Jesus a socialist? and your line give obama a chance, maybe he has connections.......... Really? Thats how he got elected wasn't it?.

Actually I wasn't poking at ijohn. That was just a good jumping off point.
 
i may be living in a bubble and to be quite honest i really dont follow much the news is always very depressing...but I have a question and please dont bite my head off with the answer...i know this topic can get VERY heated and there have been a few threads closed already that talks about this very topic...so here goes...

1) how is the government responsible for the failure of GM/Chrysler..ect?..

here's what I am under the impression of....I thought that most of this was caused by the consumer over extending their credit, by buying huge homes they could not afford and then not making payments on the brand new car and brand new house and not paying their credit cards....ect...then cause they (the auto makers) were not selling as many cars (but they still pumped them out) they now are not selling them creating a backlog, if they are sellin they are not makin money either...then the cascade effect happens...lay off ect...and then boom we are where we are today...

i will admit i have not followed every detail but it seem like it was a combination of many people making the wrong decision

the consumer being in a want want want frame of mind (out do the "Jones'")

the auto makers for not sellin what they had first and then borrowing from pensions to pay their bills..ect...

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K let the floggin begin...lol jk
 
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