WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE NEW CALIFORNIA STATE CHICKEN CONFINEMENT LAW FOR EGG FARMERS ?????

[chickengeorgeto]

The GDP of Alabama is irrevelant to this thread topic.

What is revellant is that Alabama has affordable eggs on it's grocery store shelves and California does not.
When available they will cost CA consumers exponentially more, to the tune of 30-70% according to the article linked by the op.

Now this, what I have already predicted:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...nd-onto-menus-foie-gras-is-back-in-california

"Animal rights activists have long denounced foie gras as a product of animal cruelty. In 2004, California voters approved a ban on the production and sale of foie gras in the state, but it didn't take effect until eight years later. Now U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson has ruled that the ban clashes with an existing federal law that regulates the sale and distribution of poultry products."

Duck-easies were already popping up in the Golden State. You just knocked on the locked front door and when a big bruser of a fellow slid back the viewing slit you said in a quite and fugitive tone, "Martha Stewart sent me!"

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I don't know where to start...........

Beginning with the first sentence most of this comment is blatantly false.

I didn't see a single truth myself. Lazy is 100% correct.

they're not all one and the same, and even the cleaner facilities need to administer far more antibiotics than a pasture based system where the animals are in open air and moved constantly to break the parasitic life cycles.

"The smell wasn't nearly as bad as I imagined it would be." "treated moat"

well doesn't that sound nice.

the point wasn't to bemoan factory farms so much as it was to counter the posters claims of necessary farrowing pens and the cleaner conditions in confinement operations.

When a sow is ready to birth in a natural setting she will build a nest out of dead grass, leaves, and sticks. Sometimes this farrowing nest is as big as a VW Beetle. When she returns to nurse her litter she will plop down in any fashion regardless of where her piglets are, crushing any who are unlucky. Also any human who stumbles upon a sows' nest is risking life and limb. If a feral nursing sow takes a disliking to you she will charge scattering piglets like so many 10 pins. Swine are already bred by nature to take significant infant mortality into account. That is the reason that sows farrow anywhere from every 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days to about every four months, producing as many as 20 or more piglets at a time.

Swine in a natural setting are destructive to the natural ecosystem. To implement rotational grazing to grow healthy pigs in sufficient numbers to keep farm and body together, means that you will need not just 100s of acres but 10's if not 100s of thousands of acres of good crop land. Don't forget that raising pigs is a confined feeding operation and as such it is tightly regulated by both state and federal law and there are significant
prohibitions on how many pigs and sows that you can house on X number of acres.. If I had 100s of thousands of acres of good crop land, I would rent it out to someone to raise pigs on then I would retire and spend my Winters cursing the Caribbean Islands on my 3 mast yacht and my Summers trout fishing on my estate in the Adirondacks. Oh, and I almost forgot about the dozen dancing girls.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

....may be some of those people that wanted these regulations are poor but still think animal welfare is more important than what they pay for eggs. Maybe we should make sure that everyone who works earns a living wage and those that can't work get the assistance that they need so they can afford those eggs....

... I don't like our gun laws, but I'll be darned if my desire for strict gun control keeps getting voted down...I except the fact that I live in a gun loving crazy society and continue to hope that someday gun rights advocates will be enlightened.

No living wage can ever exist or be established as long as a few elites keep raising the price of the necessaries of life to levels totally beyond the reach of the poor by closing ligament business and destroying the very jobs and opportunities that the working class in this country depend on to earn said living wage.

It sounds like you plan on some day enlightening gun advocates at the end of a gun. Isn't that what is happening to commercial egg producers and what will someday happen to backyard chicken keepers if HSUS has its way?

I can't breath!

 

[jak2002003]

We should give all domestic farm animals the best care we can... and that means bigger cages and keeping them in lower densities.

It may mean the price of meat, eggs etc will have to go up... but that's not a bad thing.. as humans need to be eating a more healthy diet and less meat anyway.

The meat from more naturally raised animals is leaner and more healthy too.

We can't just keep thinking about money over everything else. What if it got to the stage that in order to make any money we need to keep animals in horrific conditions.... we have to draw a line at some point.

Most people would not eat factory farmed animals..... if they ever got to go in a see how they were raised. And that's the same with battery hens too.

I am not saying they have to be free range.. but at least they need clean cages and room to behave naturally... that's the least we can offer them.

If is was to keep parrots cooped up and typical factor farm size chicken cage, or dogs... then I would be rightly punished by the law. These should be no difference between farm animals and pet animals in terms of BASIC care.

 

[hen madame]

No living wage can ever exist or be established as long as a few elites keep raising the price of the necessaries of life to levels totally beyond the reach of the poor by closing ligament business and destroying the very jobs and opportunities that the working class in this country depend on to earn said living wage.

It sounds like you plan on some day enlightening gun advocates at the end of a gun. Isn't that what is happening to commercial egg producers and what will someday happen to backyard chicken keepers if HSUS has its way?

I can't breath!

For goodness sake breathe!

 

[chickengeorgeto]

.... What if it got to the stage that in order to make any money we need to keep animals in horrific conditions.... we have to draw a line at some point.... but at least they need clean cages and room to behave naturally... that's the least we can offer them...

If is was to keep parrots cooped up and typical factor farm size chicken cage, or dogs... then I would be rightly punished by the law.

These should be no difference between farm animals and pet animals in terms of BASIC care.

This is the HSUS position, anyone who owns any animal and for what ever reason and in which ever fashion that they pen, house, cage, or restrain, that animal are de facto animal abusers. I am surprised that you embrace their position because then you and every Californian on this forum should turn themselves in for the crime of owning a pet, a zoo, or else a circus. I am not being melodramatic, I am just stating facts. If you are unable or unwilling to keep informed or abreast it is not my fault.

Currently the HSUS position is that the people who own reptiles, amphibians, horses, cats, dogs, birds, fish, cows, mice, pigs, goats, hamsters, sheep, bees, fowls and animals of every description are de facto animal abusers, zoo, or circus owners. The word "de facto" means that in HSUS's eyes you are in fact already an animal abuser by the simple fact that you are keeping an animal or animals in chattel bondage..

In the case of California egg producers the HSUS has upped the crime to de jure, meaning that by law you are an animal abuser, say if your neighborhood busy body (who doesn't like you or your chickens) sees your Silky brood hen in a cage used to break her brooding behavior and she turns you into the po-po. (who doesn't know any thing about chickens) In which case you will magically acquire an arrest record that will follow you and perhaps your children from job interview to job interview and from mortgage application to mortgage application for the rest of your natural lives. Ok folks, unlike Eric Gardner, your allowed to breath now.

 

[jak2002003]

This is the HSUS position, anyone who owns any animal and for what ever reason and in which ever fashion that they pen, house, cage, or restrain, that animal are de facto animal abusers. I am surprised that you embrace their position because then you and every Californian on this forum should turn themselves in for the crime of owning a pet, a zoo, or else a circus. I am not being melodramatic, I am just stating facts. If you are unable or unwilling to keep informed or abreast it is not my fault.

Currently the HSUS position is that the people who own reptiles, amphibians, horses, cats, dogs, birds, fish, cows, mice, pigs, goats, hamsters, sheep, bees, fowls and animals of every description are de facto animal abusers, zoo, or circus owners. The word "de facto" means that in HSUS's eyes you are in fact already an animal abuser by the simple fact that you are keeping an animal or animals in chattel bondage..

In the case of California egg producers the HSUS has upped the crime to de jure, meaning that by law you are an animal abuser, say if your neighborhood busy body (who doesn't like you or your chickens) sees your Silky brood hen in a cage used to break her brooding behavior and she turns you into the po-po. (who doesn't know any thing about chickens) In which case you will magically acquire an arrest record that will follow you and perhaps your children from job interview to job interview and from mortgage application to mortgage application for the rest of your natural lives. Ok folks, unlike Eric Gardner, your allowed to breath now.

Well if that is true that is crazy.

They could say we are child abusers for not letting out babies go free and run about where they like.. like onto a busy road!!!

It seems human nature to keep going to extremes.

I just wish people could use common sense both ways.. not treat animals badly, and not treat them like some fairy tail happy bunny land characters.

 

[AccidentalFarmr]

Speaking facetiously of course, apparently you are far to literal a person.

i was just returning the favor

i stated, quite clearly i thought, that i was not implying that pasture based systems could or should replace the CAFO's, but simply there is room for both.... i've seen enough farms now to realize it's possible to raise hundreds of pigs on less than 100 acres, without it turning into a field of rooted up dirt. i've also seen enough confinement operations to know it's not the way i want to go about things. and that's not even getting into the issue of meat that actually tastes like meat, and not the "watered down" version you find in the grocery stores. to each his own.

 

[AccidentalFarmr]

If a feral nursing sow takes a disliking to you she will charge scattering piglets like so many 10 pins. Swine are already bred by nature to take significant infant mortality into account. That is the reason that sows farrow anywhere from every 3 months 3 weeks and 3 days to about every four months, producing as many as 20 or more piglets at a time.

To implement rotational grazing to grow healthy pigs in sufficient numbers to keep farm and body together, means that you will need not just 100s of acres but 10's if not 100s of thousands of acres of good crop land.

how did we get to raising "feral animals"? reel it in george. gestation is 3/3/3; being bred back the moment she farrows would be some feat, and probably not good for the sow. again if it takes you hundreds of thousands of acres to make a living raising animals on pasture you are doing something terribly wrong. if you had yourself all that land it might be best if you rented it out. there are plenty of examples in my area alone where multiple species rotate through pastures, tilling, fertilizing, getting their own food and making their way to the butcher putting money in pockets and food on tables..... i imagine there's plenty more throughout the country too.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

This is not a law for egg farmers but instead it is a law against anyone who sells eggs for human consumption. The Humane Society as well as other so called "humane" groups constantly deride farmers because their Cows, Ewes, Hens, Mares, Nanny Goats, Doe Rabbets, etc. are in the words of the Humane groups, "Constantly Pregnant" Even though if these animals when living in a natural free range environment they would almost constantly be pregnant anyway.

Excuse me but a mare first comes into heat and becomes pregnant again in as little as 5 days AFTER she has delivered a foal. That is If her organic free range stallion finds out about it in time. Sows on the other hand will come into heat a second, third, or forth time 3 to 5 days after her current piglets are weaned or otherwise stop nursing, like if the sow crushes or smothers her piglets while nursing them, hence the need for farrowing crates, perhaps the most humane animal confinement device ever invented. However a sow that is bred back too soon will only produce a small number of pigs. This is undesirable because pig farmers sell ... well surprise, they sell pigs. What did you think they sold or produced; Swiss Cheese and Strawberries?

I have often said and I still believe that the people who re-spout verbatim what the humane originations say in regard to the subject of excessive domestic animal pregnancies, seem to have an unhealthy fascination, or dare I even say envy concerning the sexual organs or habits of bulls, stallions, cows, and mares?

Good laying hens on the other hand give birth up to once every day or in other words each and every time that she lays a new egg. However the hen postpones pregnancy until she has accumulated a sufficient number of ovum to make the task of sitting on her eggs worthwhile. Worthwhile for the hen that is, but not necessarily profitable for the farmer.