What internal parasites are these?

[dawg53]

Sales clerk recommending DE

 

[ChickNanny13]

Sales clerk recommending DE

Yup

 

[nuthatched]

Sales clerk recommending DE

The gal in charge of chicks at our tsc was using all the miscellaneous bogus sexing methods. She was trying them on sex link chicks.....

 

[Ponyiqandhens2]

For future note: for anyone else:
(WIP, I'm researching for an article)
Because DE, (also pumpkin seeds, cayenne, chewing tobacco, etc though I'm still researching them) are marketed as feed supplements rather than medicine, they need to prove only that it's safe, they do not have to prove that it's effective. ln fact, very few of them offer supporting data documenting any antiparasitic effect. When parasitologists have tested some of these products, they have rarely found convincing results.
The search for a more natural source of safe 'medications' is a good one and should be encouraged, many of to-days drugs are synthesized/concentrated versions of products found in nature. However, a common misconception that natural is always safe/ healthy, is misguided at best as Pit viper venom is natural and organic and will kill you.
The working theory for de for internal parasites is that if it's ingested, it is expelled in the droppings along with parasitic eggs, and as the droppings dry, the de retains it effectiveness and dries out the parasitic eggs, keeping the animal from re ingesting them, keeping the internal parasitic load manageable and also keeping the animal and you from breathing it as much. It does sound reasonable, but that doesn't make it true.
For it to work, the target must be in a completely dry environment, have an exoskeleton, or some sort of 'skin'. Every website or brand of de states that the product is ineffective for pest control when wet.
Every scientific study I've found on it has either ( a large majority) inconclusive results (no measurable difference between untreated and de treated groups) or found de treated groups to have significantly heavier worm loads than medicated groups. Only 3 studies (in sheep) that I've found so far, concluded that animals treated with de had a slightly less concentrated worm egg load per gram of fecal matter than the control (untreated) group, but the treated animals were 'poorly fleshed'.
Quote:
A number of people strongly believe that DE also has an antiparasitic effect when administered orally. However, I know of several studies that have evaluated the effects of DE on intestinal worms. Unfortunately, none of these have found that DE has any impact on internal parasites.

My qualified opinion is that physical damage to the parasites is unlikely to occur within the intestine of the horse. The worms and their larvae are very small, often too small to be seen with the naked eye. Infective larvae are very hardy and survive the grinding teeth as well as the stomach acids before reaching the intestine. By the time an oral dose of DE reaches the gut, it will be so diluted in the ingesta that the chances of individual particles encountering a parasite would be very small.

If the sharp particles really were present in numbers sufficient to cut the parasites, one would also expect them to cause lesions in the mucosal membranes of the horse. Furthermore, all horses ingest soil and sand, which also can have sharp edges, but we don’t see any reduction of parasite loads in response. All in all, there are no sound biological reasons to expect DE to have an antiparasitic effect—and this is supported by research.

Some have suggested that DE might be effective at disrupting parasitic larvae within the fecal pile on pasture. But, again, a number of my colleagues evaluated this hypothesis in controlled studies, and they found no such effect.
As scientists we take every opportunity to evaluate new possible remedies that can help reduce parasite loads in our horses. A few of these have some potential, but the majority have not worked well. At University of Kentucky, we are currently doing research with a couple of new treatment methods, and there is some promise. Many plants contain antiparasitic substances, but it has proven difficult to extract these and feed them in sufficiently high concentrations to the horses for them to have an effect. Many fungi also produce antiparasitic compounds. In fact, the most widely used dewormer, ivermectin, is actually produced by a fungus. So chances are good that there is an effective dewormer out there that just has not yet been discovered. Unfortunately, diatomaceous earth is not in this category, and we discourage horse owners from relying on it for parasite control.

IMO, from a researchers standpoint, 87% of my research concluded that it is ineffective in this use entirely, 8% concluded that it's better than nothing (minimal effectiveness) and 3% showed significant effectiveness, with a caveat or side effects. (slow weight gain, poorly fleshed com paired to untreated group) Respiratory scarring is also a issue but I'm still gathering data.
Given, most of these studies are on horses, sheep/goats and cattle but I see no reason why it would only work on certain animals and not others. But I'm still sifting through studies, we'll see how it pans out.
De does have good levels of trace minerals, however, it might be easier to dose with other means.
However, all poultry keepers should treat their flocks as they see fit!
Thank you!
Edit: my studies didn't transfer
Effects of fossil shell flour supplementation on heat tolerance of dohne merino rams Lwazi Mwandaa, Olusegun O Ikusikaa,b,⁎, Conference T Mpenduloa, Anthony I Okohb,c
Quotes by Martin K. Nielsen, DVM, PhD, DEVPC, DACVM
M.H. Gluck Equine Research Center
University of Kentucky
Lexington, Kentucky
found at https://equusmagazine.com/horse-care/diatomaceous-earth-dewormer-15880/
https://the-chicken-chick.com/raising-chickens-naturally-diatomaceous/
THE EFFECT OF DIFFERENT INCLUSION LEVELS OF DIATOMACEOUS EARTH IN FEEDLOT DIETS ON THE PERFORMANCE OF LAMBS A.T. Nkwana1,2, J.H. Hoon1# & P.J. Fourie2 1 Grootfontein Agricultural Development Institute, Private Bag X529, Middelburg (EC), 5900 2 Department of Agriculture, Central University of Technology, Private Bag X20539, Bloemfontein, 9300
Köster, H., 2010. Diatomite in animal feeds. Animate Animal Health.
McLean, B., Frost, D., Evans, E., Clarke, A. & Griffiths, B., 2005. The inclusion of diatomaceous earth in the diet of grazing ruminants and its effect on gastrointestinal parasite burdens. In: International Scientific Conference on Organic Agriculture, Adelaide, Australia, 277-280.
The Real Dirt on Diatomaceous Earth Used For Worming Bison
Murray Woodbury DVM, MSc, Associate Professer and Research Chair, Specialized Livestock Research and Production, Dept. of Large Animal Clinical Studies, Western College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Saskatchewan.
Effect of diatomaceous earth as an anthelmintic treatment on internal parasites and feedlot performance on beef steers.
M. I Fernandes, B.W Woodward and B. E Stromberg
Cambridge University Press, Sep, 2. 2010
Deutschlander, D. 1993. Evaluating diatomaceous earth as a wormer for sheep and cattle. In Greenbook '93, p. 37. Energy and Sustainable Agriculture Program, Minnesota Department of Agriculture, St Paul.
Gregory, B., Mulumebet, W. & Mohamed, A., 2009. The effects of diatomaceous earth on parasite-infected goats. Bull. Georg. Natl. Acad. Sci. (3)1, 129-135.
Cox, D. D. and Todd, A. C. 1962. Survey of gastrointestinal parasitism in Wisconsin dairy cattle, journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 141: 706–709
Osweiler, G.D. & Carson, T.L., 1997. Evaluation of diatomaceous earth as an adjunct to sheep parasite control in organic farming. Leopold Center Completed Grant Reports, 102.
Moore, G.A., A.M. Zajac, C.D. Thatcher, D. Notter and S. Umberger. 1995. Use of diatomaceous earth in the control of internal parasites of grazing lambs. Proceedings of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists meeting. 40:66-67.
Bernard et al. (2009) The Effects of Diatomaceous Earth on Parasite Infected Goats.Authors: Gregory C. Bernard Tuskegee University Mulumebet Worku North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, Mohamed Ahmedna Qatar University
Dr Niki C. Whitley and Dr James E. Miller, North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, Greensboro, NC, USA
Fernandez, M. I., B.W. Woodward and B.E. Stromberg. 1998. Effect of diatomaceous earth as an anthelmintic treatment on internal parasites and feedlot performance of beef steers. Animal Science. 66:635-641. DOI: 10.1017/S1357729800009206
Ahmed, M., M.D. Laing, and I.V. Nsahlai. 2013. Studies on the ability of two isolates of Bacillus thuringiensis, an isolate of Clonostachys rosea f. rosea, and a diatomaceous earth product, to control gastrointestinal nematodes of sheep. Biocontrol Science and Technology. DOI:
Bowie, E.A. 2014. Alternative treatments for Haemonchus contortus in sheep: Testing of a natural dewormer and literature review of management. Dickinson College Honors Thesis. Paper 163.
Nuti, L., B. Johnson, D. McWhinney. N. El-Sayed, and T. Craig. 2000. Is there any effect by dietary diatomaceous earths in the control of gastrointestinal nematodes? Proceedings of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists meeting. 45:50.
El Gayar, A., T. Craig, J. Thompson, B. Johnson, D. McWhinney and L. Nuti. 2002. The effect of protein levels and diatomaceous earths on Haemonchus contortus challenge in goats. Proceedings of the American Association of Veterinary Parasitologists meeting. 47:53-54.

Tldr; de, pumpkin seeds, garlic and avc won't do a thing

Dr.martin nielson is considered the formost parisitologist worldwide. One of my riding students got an internship inhis lab..

 

[dawg53]

The gal in charge of chicks at our tsc was using all the miscellaneous bogus sexing methods. She was trying them on sex link chicks.....

You're cracking me up!

 

[Painted Calls]

The gal in charge of chicks at our tsc was using all the miscellaneous bogus sexing methods. She was trying them on sex link chicks.....

 

[Chick3nLover]

Hey y’all, just about finished reading all these very informative messages. Thank you for helping me. Im going to watch her over the weekend, and if I still see no improvement in the worms or I see her decrease in any of her usual stuff, I’ll most likely try a dewormer. Are there different kinds of dewormers for tapeworms? I’ve heard of a few, and I saw that on of y’all suggested an equine one, but I’ve also heard of goat dewormers? Is there a better one, and are there any side affects I should know of before treating her with a strong dewormer?

Thanks for answering my questions I know I’ve asked so many. I’ve just never used a strong dewormer before, and since it would be my first time, I just want to do what’s best for my girl!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Hey y’all, just about finished reading all these very informative messages. Thank you for helping me. Im going to watch her over the weekend, and if I still see no improvement in the worms or I see her decrease in any of her usual stuff, I’ll most likely try a dewormer. Are there different kinds of dewormers for tapeworms? I’ve heard of a few, and I saw that on of y’all suggested an equine one, but I’ve also heard of goat dewormers? Is there a better one, and are there any side affects I should know of before treating her with a strong dewormer?

Thanks for answering my questions I know I’ve asked so many. I’ve just never used a strong dewormer before, and since it would be my first time, I just want to do what’s best for my girl!

Those are tapeworm segments.

You need to purchase Equimax equine paste at a feed store and orally dose the chicken(s) that excreted the tapeworm segments. There is no need to treat your whole flock, only the one(s) that excreted the segments.
Equimax dosage is given orally, dosage is 0.03ml per pound or for a 5 pound bird give 0.15ml orally.
It's best to give the wormer early in the morning before feeding your birds. Your birds will be hungry and so will the tapeworms. The wormer will be more effective killing the tapeworms on an empty stomach. Wait a couple of hours after worming before feeding your birds.

There could be one to several tapeworms growing inside one hen, as an example. They shed segments as the tapeworm grows inside the hen.
The excreted segments you see in feces work their way onto and into the soil where they are eaten by an insect. The infected insect is eventually eaten by one of your chickens and your chicken becomes infected, starting the tapeworms lifecycle all over again.
It's called the "Indirect Lifecycle" requiring a host to spread offspring.

Perhaps you are not understanding. What you are visibly seeing in the poop are Proglottids which are tiny segments from an Adult Tapeworm. As the Tapeworm "matures" the segments (Proglottids) break off and pass out in the stool.

So, your hen has Tapeworms. Worms affect the overall health of the bird, they can cause infection in the intestines, weight loss, loss of production, etc.
It's best to just treat her and then you won't have to worry about it.

You need to use Praziquantel to treat Tapeworms. Yes, I'm sure you've read other threads mentioning Goat Dewormer (Safeguard/Fenbendazole) or even Valbazen (Albendazole) to deworm chickens, but these 2 dewormers do not contain Praziquantel nor are they being suggested to treat Tapeworms in any current threads.

Equimax is probably the easiest product to find at stores like TSC, but there are a few other "brands" that contain Praziquantel that you can use. Those are listed in the first post of the thread below along with dosing.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/treating-tapeworms-under-construction.1220309/

See all those "segments" on these worms? Those are what are being expelled into the poop.

 

[Fallenone05]

Perhaps you are not understanding. What you are visibly seeing in the poop are Proglottids which are tiny segments from an Adult Tapeworm. As the Tapeworm "matures" the segments (Proglottids) break off and pass out in the stool.

So, your hen has Tapeworms. Worms affect the overall health of the bird, they can cause infection in the intestines, weight loss, loss of production, etc.
It's best to just treat her and then you won't have to worry about it.

You need to use Praziquantel to treat Tapeworms. Yes, I'm sure you've read other threads mentioning Goat Dewormer (Safeguard/Fenbendazole) or even Valbazen (Albendazole) to deworm chickens, but these 2 dewormers do not contain Praziquantel nor are they being suggested to treat Tapeworms in any current threads.

Equimax is probably the easiest product to find at stores like TSC, but there are a few other "brands" that contain Praziquantel that you can use. Those are listed in the first post of the thread below along with dosing.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/treating-tapeworms-under-construction.1220309/

See all those "segments" on these worms? Those are what are being expelled into the poop.

great info to have and remember, but I forget how gross tapeworms look. I've had to treat for them once and just bLECK. Definitely get the stronger dewormers!

 

[dawg53]

Hey y’all, just about finished reading all these very informative messages. Thank you for helping me. Im going to watch her over the weekend, and if I still see no improvement in the worms or I see her decrease in any of her usual stuff, I’ll most likely try a dewormer. Are there different kinds of dewormers for tapeworms? I’ve heard of a few, and I saw that on of y’all suggested an equine one, but I’ve also heard of goat dewormers? Is there a better one, and are there any side affects I should know of before treating her with a strong dewormer?

Thanks for answering my questions I know I’ve asked so many. I’ve just never used a strong dewormer before, and since it would be my first time, I just want to do what’s best for my girl!

Dont play games with worms. They are serious business. They weaken the chickens immune system opening the door for diseases to take over and will eventually kill your birds. Get the Equimax NOW and dose your birds.
Your birds will love you for it just like you'd love your doctor if you had worms.