What is a "breeder?"

[Katy]

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I've said all along that isn't what I'm in it for.......I'm in it for the birds...not to make myself a name.

 

[Katy]

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I don't know where you live, but I doubt you're any more rural than I am. I had nothing but hatchery birds for a very, very long time until I decided I was fed up with having birds that looked nothing like they were supposed to.....even if they were just for my laying flock. I had to look a long time to find the parent stock that I wanted, and even longer to find someone willing to sell me eggs. Had there been more shows in my area it would have been much easier.

 

[Lotsapaints]

From the ALBC

SELECTION
By J. M. Affleck
National Barred Rock Journal
June 1929
Selection is the most direct and powerful means of improvement at the disposal of the
breeder; indeed it is almost the only means of permanent improvement that is under
our direct control.
In most phases of the breeding problem the poultry man is an onlooker merely; but by
selection he becomes an active agent, and his acts are powerful for the good or evil in
controlling the destiny of the breed or variety which we handle. To a large extent he
supplants nature’s selection, and if he is to succeed he must be well grounded in four
fundamentals when he thus takes a hand in the course of nature.
1. He must have a clear idea of what he wishes to accomplish and persistently
adhere to the one ideal.
2. He must be informed as to the history of the breed he handles and of the
variations, which are most likely to occur.
3. He must know the general principles involved in selection in order to know the
forces with which he deals and what is likely to happen when he interferes.
4. He must know how far he may depart from sound practice on account of
economic or other considerations.
Common sense would dictate that ideals in selection should place utilitarian value first
and processing this, to add other minor refinements with caution, and not lose sight of
the primary purpose. Too many refinements or fads will greatly complicate problems
and endanger the original ideal.
In the effort to secure such refinements, we must not overlook the importance of
fertility, hatchability, vigor or longevity. The "shy breeder" never will advance you far,
even though possessed of superlative excellencies in all other ways, for first must come
the power of prolific production.
The more the matter is studied the more you will find that the excellence of a flock is
advanced or sustained, not by the general mass, but by a few exceptional breeders. This
exceptional breeder is often not the exceptional bird in appearance or performance. It is
only by making test matings and pedigreeing the progeny that you can spot these super
birds.
Now for the immediate problem in hand – the selection of young birds as they reach the
frying or broiling stage. At this time most birds will be enough mature that we can judge
them with reasonable accuracy, and since we can make a good profit from them when
sold as fryers, it would seem good policy to be rather rigid in requirements. Naturally we
can and should be more exacting with the cockerels but it would be poor policy to keep
a pullet unless it fairly well fills the requirements as outlined below.
1. Any which are subnormal on feathering; any with split, twisted or dropped flights or
any other defect which goes with weak wing.
2. Any which do not show evidence of good nutrition by being well fleshed and
pigmented.
3. Any who do not move with poise and quickness and are well balanced upon their
feet.
4. Any bird whose head inclines to the crow head; too long and slender with beak
sagging in front of the eye. Heads should be blocky, broad, and carried well behind the
eye; beak stocky, curved and husky; eye large, bright and intelligent.
5. Any whose body is not solid, broad backed, with good length and depth. Keel should
be medium to long, and preferably straight.
Having made your first selection, you will have more room for the ones that are left.
Give them good range with lots of green stuff, feed a ration with not more than one part
of protein to seven parts of carbohydrates, and at six months of age they should be a joy
to the eye. Send broilers to market as soon as they are saleable.
Since chicks make the most rapid growth during the first few weeks of their lives, it costs
more and takes longer to put on weight after they have reached a pound in weight.
Chicks increase the weight 54% the first week, 65% the second, 55% the third week, 44%
the fourth week, 32% the fifth week, 28% the sixth week, 20% the seventh and 16% the
eighth week.
Separate pullets and cockerels as soon as the sexes can be told apart. Male chicks are
likely to be larger, stronger and more vigorous than the females so the pullets have less
opportunity to grow when brooded with them. Separation of the chickens should be
made to insure a more rapid and uniform growth of both pullets and cockerels. It
reduces the size of the flocks and gives more feeding and drinking space for the birds
left. Keep the cockerels which develop fastest as breeding males.

I pretty much think this sums it up

 

[cracked_egg]

Again Katy, none of this is directed at you. I don't know why every time I post on breeding you take it as a direct insult or critique of "your program"... This is not a "whose more rural than whom" thread.

Please put "one" in the place of "you" when reading my posts, because "you" is used as a generality, not meaning "you katy".

The post was about what a breeder is, I feel there are levels of breeders, bad, ok, good, great, etc. I don't think people breed anything for the "fame". They breed for the love of what they are breeding, and the credentials go with it. Just like being a good lawyer, doctor, dentist, hairdresser, mechanic, etc... If one is highly successful at one's passion, others will take notice, that is not the "goal" it is a side affect.

 

[jeremy]

Small breeders or large breeders, they all had to get there start sometime. Which means at one point they had a very small quantity of birds. Through selective breeding and culling they raise only the best of their numbers and cull the rest. I don't see why there would be any problem for the small breeder to sell hatching eggs at the same time they're trying to increase their numbers, it only helps them. The funds they receive from selling their progeny helps them to further their own breeding program.

I'll be the first to say I'm not made of money! And at this point raising these birds isn't making me a living, like Katy said though, that's not the point. For example I'm raising Delawares because I like them and because I feel they're an endangered American breed that needs the efforts of breeders big and small to preserve their heritage. Am I going to sell eggs as well as hatch my own chicks at the same time? Yes- because my feed bill isn't going to just magically pay for itself!

Now, am I a large scale breeder with tons and tons of breeding pens with hundreds of birds? (Which by any other name is simply a hatchery, IMO) No I most certainly am not. But I don't believe in breeding my birds that way. If you hatch through hundreds and hundreds of chicks a year how selective can you possibly be? Who's to say you didn't cull something that you should have kept? That's why I let my birds grow out, then sort through the flocks for the birds that most represent the SOP as they've matured. That limits me to the number of chicks I (personally) hatch and raise each year but it doesn't or shouldn't down play the quality small scale farmer and breeder.

I also believe in people working together to achieve common goals, sharing birds and keeping records of one another's progress to maintain a larger flock while also promoting some diversity. Then when you need an out cross you have a partner who can help you do just that.

 

[Katy]

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Well when a person responds directly to a comment I've made I take that as being directed at me.

I know this isn't a "who's more rural than who" thread. I was just saying I'm very rural too and had to look very hard and for a long time to be able to acquire my birds from somewhere other than a hatchery....so hatchery isn't the only option no matter how rural you are.

 

[Long Horn Poultry Farm]

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I agree

 

[CityChicker]

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That is so unfortunate about the state fair there (and elsewhere). I haven't been in several years, so I don't know firsthand how it is doing (been once in about 20 years since I moved out of KS). When I was little, it was a different ball game. I remember spending *hours* in the poultry barn with my Dad and Grandparents, who along with a few others, would bring birds in just for exhibition purposes not for the actual show. There used to be someone that would bring in several species of ornamental waterfowl even. There would be literally a line of people moving slowly into the building and down the aisles (keep in mind, this was like the '70's into the early '80's). It took forever to even get into the building!

 

[CityChicker]

Great article, lotsapaints!

One line in that article really sums it up to me, "In most phases of the breeding problem the poultry man is an onlooker merely; but by selection he becomes an active agent, and his acts are powerful for the good or evil in controlling the destiny of the breed or variety which we handle".

In my opinion, this is what makes a "breeder" a "breeder"- being proactive in the reproduction of the birds by practicing selective breeding, ie. pairing birds together that complement each other, with the goal being to improve upon both parent birds and constantly improve your line. Not a lot of people do this. There are far more that are merely "onlookers". They put a bunch of birds together and just let nature take its' course. This is not "breeding", IMHO. It is simply allowing your birds to reproduce. Calling yourself a breeder, in my opinion, implies that you are actively making choices in which birds to pair together with a concrete goal in mind.

"Breeders" are really few and far between. As the hobby grows, I see a lot of people getting into poultry keeping that really are essentially clueless about selective breeding. They do nothing but buy birds from all the "name brand" poultry lines, throw them all in a pen together, and allow them to reproduce. I can't tell you how often I have seen people like this enter the sport, put up a big flashy website, and then fall off the face of the earth in less than five years. It is so common anymore it is almost a cliche. I can think of a number of these " breeders" (but, I can also think of a number of newer breeders that have greatly improved their stock in a very short amount of time).

Anyway, the short version is that I think there are "breeders" and "people that do nothing more than allow birds to reproduce". Under the subheading of "breeder", there are also "good breeders" and "poor breeders" as well as "experienced breeders" and "inexperienced breeders". All of these breeders though are making proactive decisions in paring their stock, some are just better at it than others.

 

[greathorse]

This is an interesting discussion and one I have given some thought. I think anyone that puts two animals together is of course a breeder in the loosest sense of the word, but that person would be a very bad breeder and of course it is not what the OP was asking about.

I think a breeder in the discussion here is a person that has achieved some level of success by carefully propagating a breed or variety. A level of success can of course come in the show ring, barn, etc.. I think a level of success can also come from being a person that knows and understands what makes up the speciman and works toward creating a better and better animal. It seems to me that in order to be "validated" as a breeder one would need some recognition that the animals developed are high quality. Again this can come at a show, but can also come from another breeder. For example if a known expert such as (name your person) were to walk into my pens and say to me "You have bred some very nice stock here. I think they are very representative of the breed and you just keep doing what you are doing". I think I would then be recognized as a breeder of worth.