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What is a Frazzle? I was aske?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Glenda Heywoodo, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. Glenda Heywoodo

    Glenda Heywoodo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dec 19, 2016
    Cassville Missouri
    Glenda Heywood as of 1-16-2017
    I was asked what is a frazzle?

    actually they are called extreme frizzles or curlies and they do not have feather folicle holes when they molt out the original feathers. Thus many do not have feathers as such when hatched or grow up.

    And the extreme frizzling makes them whispy thin with and generally look wet looking

    but if you have some very good cochin typed females of regular feathering then mate them to the extreme frizzle if it is a male
    or visa versa.
    Personally I never did use curlies: as they do not breed good frizzles as their feather quality is so awful and either whispy
    or NO FEATHERS AT ALL.

    The extreme frizzle is not able to stand the heat or the cold when it becomes a adult as the feathers are not wide enough and dense enough

    Here is some information on breeding frizzles

    Frizzles are bred in these breed types
    featherlegged
    rose comb clean legged
    single comb clean legged
    modern games
    old english games and american games
    there are no bantam duck frizzles

    People have gotten interested in the Frizzle breeds, with its many varities, of large fowl and bantams.

    Frizzle is the BREED, the kinds of frizzles are breed type such as Cochin Frizzles, Jap Frizzls, Rock Frizzles, Silkie Frizzles and Naked Neck Frizzles and
    Polish Frizzle, Serama Frizzles on thru the breeds. These are the ones now common in USA.
    There are several Foreign countries of breeders on EXHIBITION FRIZZLE BREEDERS ON FACEBOOK that have colors of frizzles
    we do not have in the ABA or APA Standards.

    Also there are Sabastopol Geese. They are the only frizzled feathered waterfowl.
    Waterfowl who are(Natural feathered is frizzled by nature)There are frizzle breeds in large fowl and bantmas.

    Because good frizzles throw a certain amount of the smooths (1/2 frizzle & 1/2 regular feathered with frizzle gene)

    Now you can breed the frizzles to the smoothes. Smooths are the 1/2 frizzle and 1/2 regular feathered frizzles, but have the Frizzle genes.
    Smoothes are very important to your breeding plan. If they are good typed do not discard them.

    They have a modifying gene when bred to the frizzle side of the breeding they being disposed to a frizzle parent
    will then make the breeding ie: frizzle to smooth = 1/2 frizzle and 1/2 smooths in the next generation.
    At least 1/3 will be smooth and 2/3 frizzle. Any ways mine always did. I never bred frizzle to frizzle as it caused
    so many extra curlies with not enough feather folicles to have good feathering.
    Narrow whispy wet looking feathers mostly what amount they did have.
    Extreme frizzles most always are hatched without many feathers or lose them after maturity.

    Breeding frizzle to frizzle will only breed the feather folicles off the birds and make narrow whispy feathers and not good frizzles.
    These birds can not survive either cold weather or hot weather not enough feathers. They only can be disposed of.
    You need wide frizzled feathers for a good frizzle of any breed. AND LOTS OF FRIZZLE FEATHERS PER BIRD,

    You can try breeding frizzle to frizzle but most times it only is wasted space and feed you spend for nothing.
    In the end they are not good frizzles.
    Now if some one wants to start breeding frizzles you only need one of the pair frizzled.
    Then the next year use the smooths that come out of the breeding back on the frizzles. The frizzle gene is dominent always when bred to straight ( no frizzle gene at all) feathered birds.

    THE LEGHORNS CAN BE BRED TO THE FRIZZLE AND MAKE LEGHORN FRIZZLES.
    It will take a few yrs of constant breeding for type etc. But the frizzle gene will be there.
    this could be bred to a rock frizzle and then breed several yrs to perfect the leghorn breed type away from the rock type.

    ALL FRIZZLES need to be bred to follow their breed type. But with frizzle feathering curling towards the head of the bird
    in its breed type:ie: cochin, silkie, leghorn, rock, jap, cornish etc according to the ABA breed type for each breed with frizzled feathers.
    The American Bantam Assn standard has different breed type colors standardized.
    The American Poultry Assn Standard has different breed type colors also.
    So be sure when showing at a APA show or ABA show to have the correct standard color and breed type frizzles.

    The SILKIES can be bred to the frizzles and make SILKIE FRIZZLES. What breed are you using for frizzle? Probably a Cochin Frizzle is this right?

    If so then the feathers on the legs ( if using cochin frizzles, Rocks would have single comb clean legs best breed of frizzle to breed to a Leghorn regular feather bird)

    Of the Leghorn Frizzles, have to be bred out of the Leghorn frizzle offspring , these feathers on the legs are called stubs ( any leg
    feathering on the Leghorn frizzles).Leghorns are of the Single Comb Clean Leg class.
    Also the Leghorn type will need to be bred into the offspring. The tail will have to be bred into them to be Leghorn type.
    A rock type frizzle would be better to use with leghorns.

    In the Silkie Frizzles If using a Cochin Frizzle you have to have the Silkie feathering, Silkie comb- Walnut type Mulberry color comb,
    the turquoise Blue earlobes,also a crest and bearded or non bearded, and 5 toes.None of which are on Cochins.
    They seem to have nicknamed silkie frizzles IE: Sissles!!!! Pure bred frizzled silkies need to be shown as frizzled silkies.

    So the frizzling has to be gotten and then go back on Silkies only with Frizzled off spring
    /same is true with the Leghorns, go back with Leghorns on the Frizzle off spring.
    Use your 1/2 frizzle and 1/2 regular feathered smooths that came out of the cross.

    I would use frizzle females on the silkie male or Leghorn male, when going to 2nd generationF-1 matings.

    The frizzles can be raised alone or with the other birds. If the other birds are not aggresive.
    I never raised the large fowl and bantams together, so the frizzles and the modern games
    and rocks and what ever I had lived together except at breeding time,

    Also the males were all pened seperate at all times after maturing. Then I seperated all breeding pens according to kinds and breeds for the matings.
    I usually kept a trio in by them selves.

    Remember if breeding Cochin frizzles they need the circle of feathers pulled out gently one by one, in a 3 inch circle in diameter of the soft vent feathers,
    plucked from around the vent area feathers of both the male and females. So that fertilization can happen and not be wasted on the feathers.
    If not vent feathers aren't removed the sperm stays on the feathers and not in the vent of the female.

    Do you have the American Bantam Assn Standard.The new 2017 Bantam Standard has color pictures of birds.
    It lists all the breeds of Bantams and Bantam ducks.
    The 2017 APA Standard has a lot of color photos of Large fowl, bantams, waterfowl & turkeys.
    These books are necessary for any breeder of any breed.
    Have a standard you use to look at your birds with to compare photos to your birds
    Ask any and all questions I will try and answer them.

    Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri
    f
     
  2. Glenda Heywoodo

    Glenda Heywoodo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dec 19, 2016
    Cassville Missouri
    Glenda Heywood
    Yes the correct term is
    Frizzle IE: breed type Cochin, Silkie, Leghorn etc.
    But back in the day in 1970's
    Frizzles were Cochin breed type and (White Color)
    and could only win BEST OF VARIETY AND RESERVE OF VARIETY Frizzle.(BV OR RV)
    And never went up against the best Cochin of the show.
    But to day we have the rules changed.
    The frizzle breed type of 1 color will be put with the breed type of the same color.
    Then Judged as BV and RV of that color breed type.
    Then it goes up against the winner of the color breed type for best of breed.
    Such as today we see:
    White Frizzled Cochins going on to be BB or RB of the Cochin class at shows
    Also Black Frizzled Cochins winning BB and or RB of Cochin class of show.
    So it goes with other frizzled breed types.
    But mostly Cochin Frizzles have come up with the big winners.
    As Cochin breed type frizzles have excellent body type and good frizzling
    with correct face, feet, leg to win the cochin breed class.
    GO TO EXHIBITION FRIZZLE BREEDERS ON FACEBOOK and see many of the champions pictured and talked about there.
     
  3. Glenda Heywoodo

    Glenda Heywoodo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dec 19, 2016
    Cassville Missouri
    Glenda Heywood
    I wanted to show you a Extreme Frizzle
    IE: curly IE: frazzle!!
    FROM BYC

    fun monitor
    • Location: southern california
    • Joined: 3/2008
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    Tee-hee! The post subject makes me laugh.
    I'm hoping and hoping and praying that my frizzle isn't a boy. We'll keep him anyway, but it's easier to keep one rooster rather than two, and we have a cute Polish cockerel. How can I choose between the two? Anyway, here are pictures of "her".

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -Laura
    owner of a flock of 23 (16/7)
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    -Laura
    owner of a flock of 23 (16/7)
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  4. Glenda Heywoodo

    Glenda Heywoodo Chillin' With My Peeps

    982
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    Dec 19, 2016
    Cassville Missouri


    What Makes a Good Frizzle?


    By Glenda Heywood



    When you are in the market for a good breeder to make Frizzles out of do this:
    BUY THE BEST STRAIGHT FEATHERED BIRD THAT IS THE BREED YOU ARE MAKING.


    Then get one of the best Frizzles you can find. I use the Frizzle in the cock bird
    and the straight feather in the hen. This will work with most any breed.

    If you are making Cochins that is easy as you find the color variety and the
    best stock according to the qualities of the Cochin breed.
    You will need good type on both of the birds you are using.


    I never recommend that one uses Frizzle to Frizzle except
    maybe the first time if this is all that you can find for the original breeding stock.


    Try and get two to three hens that are related to each other or get three unrelated females and an unrelated male.
    If this is the case use single mateings and have three pens of unrelated eggs.


    Putting the cock bird in each pen on the 2rd day for pen 1 and on the 3rd day for pen 2 and on the 4th day for pen three.


    Then as the week starts all over do the same. The hens need the cock bird every 4th day.


    When that first year is done you will need to toe punch the baby chicks as they come from the hatcher,
    writing down what toe punch is from which pen -- #1,#2,#3.


    Then when they are old enough to put color ring bands on them do so and you will always be able to recognize them on sight.
    Make sure the bands are loose enough and not too tight for their legs so as to shut off the circulation.
    [Editor's comment: Jiffy wing bands are even better as they don't slip off so you have a lifetime record of the bird.]




    Now when the 2nd year comes you will have several families to make from the matings.
    Cock over pullets from #1 pen, or over pullets from #2 or #3 pens.


    The hen with cockerels from #1 pen to pullets of #2 pen and on thru the amount of offspring
    you have from pens #1,#2,#3, each mated to a cockerel or pullet from other pen matings.
    As long as you do this there will be no need to introduce new blood lines for many years.


    Keep the listings of the pen matings in a book to see what you mated to what in what year. Each mating has different toe punches.




    Now, if you are making Rock Frizzles or Polish Frizzles or Jap Frizzles: Take a good Frizzle cock of the breed and mate it to a good smooth female.
    If you can't find the clean-legged single comb variety you are making, you may have to start with a hen or cock from another breed,
    say Cochin Frizzle cock to a Rock hen. You will only use the Cochin Frizzle one year.


    You will have to keep a good frizzle cock out of the cross and mate it back to the Rock hen.
    The reason being is that the Cochin is feather-legged. This trait needs to be recessive and will be if used only once.
    If used more than one year it will become dominent and you will pull stubs for the rest of the time breeding,


    if you are to show these birds. Stubs are a disqualification and you don't want that.
    Always look for stubs in your clean-legged birds, when showing them. This trait pops up every
    so many years. Many feather-legged birds were used in making Frizzles.
    Also the body type of the Cochin & Rock are not the same.


    Buy a good ABA Standard or APA Standard if you don't have one.
    The standards will give you the information that each breed type needs
    Thus the birds you are trying to breed to the breed type is in the standard.

    The continuation of Frizzle breeding is exciting as the goal is to have the head feathers as heavy
    as you can and the little Cochin Frizzle look like a "Mum flower" when finished.


    The neck should show a good quantity of wide curled feathers towards the head.
    Also the body of the bird needs good heavy dense feathering with wide width.
    If too narrow, the bird's feathers will appear to be wispy and thin.


    Thus, the reason for not breeding Frizzle to Frizzle: It causes the bird to have less feather follicles
    and thus will cause the bird to come out with a dozen feathers and be bald over the body and
    intolerant of the sun or the cold weather. Curlys are a no-no in the Frizzle breeding.

    Frizzle breeding is simple: use the smooth half-Frizzle pullets that come out each year.
    Use a good male Frizzle on these smooth half-Frizzle females and you have the battle won,
    as far as it goes for keeping good curl on the head feathers and the body feathers.


    When breeding the single comb Rock, or Jap Frizzles it is simple: use this same method,
    using the half-Frizzle smooth females with a good Frizzle male.


    Show or sell the Frizzle birds not needed in the matings of the next year.
    Don't let those half-Frizzle females go. I am not a lover of the cock bird being the smooth.
    It never worked as well in my over 2 decades of breeding them.
    I find the male is the best Frizzle breed type
    and the best type needs to be seen in the hens.

    The male line is of importance as the male throws good fertility and
    the female makes the color and type permanent in the breeding of chickens.

    The male has to come from a good typed bird line also. But your females make the breeding possible.
    The short-backed females mated to a true typed frizzle male will always throw the right length of back
    on the cockerels for breeding or showing.
    Long-backed females make long-backed males and will thus stretch the breed type out too far
    and soon you have many birds not worth keeping.
    Watch what good typy females in the breeding can do for you.
     

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