What is an "organic" chicken?

[panner123]

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but in todays world you CAN NOT have a true organic anything. Not even the Amish have true organic fields anymore. Yes, you can do your best to clean your soil and feed what is called organic still impossible. You NEVER use any pesticides yet I as your neighbor use them every month. The wind is blowing my pesticides all over your property. Every time a car passes by your property, it is putting STUFF that no one wants on your property. I live out in the wildreness at the end of the road, yet I do use my truck and my wife's car. Look at all the acid rain that falls on your property. I don't use any chemicals on my property and the only person living near me is over a 1/4 of a mile away. He uses enough chenicals for the whole state. Still when the soil is tested, it shows all kinds of junk in it. Just the every day life of today causes us to be non organic. Not many years ago the government was spraying chemicals on the national forest. When we were in Veitman, it was called agent orange.

 

[greyfields]

You go to your neighbors farm, then your farm and take soil samples and you will find your soil to be many order of magnitudes 'cleaner'. Also, I know my state has very strict laws on pesticide overspray. These include jail sentences.

So, an organic farm makes every attempt to eliminate synthetic substances in its meat and produce. A traditional farm makes no attempt. Tell me which is better?

I challenge you simply to read this and tell me if it changes your opinion:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/349263_pesticide30.html

 

[MNKris]

Quote:
As someone who used to sell organic eggs and butcher chickens, I agree with most of the things people have said before.

Point 1 - Pesticides and herbicides are obviously a concern, but another thing to consider is GMO-free. That is a big deal here in MN where it is corn country. In the midwest, unless you are located near a city where you can sell your eggs and chickens, organics is cost prohibitive. People don't want to pay $4/dozen for eggs around here. I feed transitional feed now. That is GMO-free, free of pesticides and herbicides, but not certified. It is supposed to be feed that results in the "3 year waiting period" before certification occurs. Natural or transistional feeds are a great way to get closer to being truly organic without quite as much cost. I urge you to consider...It's good for the eggs you eat and your customers can buy with more confidence that they aren't getting quite so many unknowns.

Point 2 - In most states, it depends which firm does the certification whether it is extremely costly or not. Some companies will charge a flat rate up to $1000 or more, where others go based on your yearly income, making it a little more affordable.

Point 3 - We live in Amish country. We have Amish neighbors to the North and East. I'd say they live pretty organically, but I agree, that fact that we exist and use any of the products we do causes pollution. We are forced to buy certain goods packaged in plastic. There isn't another choice. Like bleach for example. It is an approved organic cleaner, but I have never seen bleach come in anything but a plastic jug for the last 20 years. And spray spread is a problem for all of us. A good friend lost over 20 fruit trees to her neighbor's herbicide spray. The trees were over 100 feet onto her property. Yeah, the air we breathe. Wonder what THAT did for everyone's lungs!

 

[speckledhen]

greyfields, one thing I think I'm trying to say is that they will hold your feet to the fire with stringent regulation, but THEY (Big Agribiz) fudge the rules when it comes to "Certified Organic". We are made to jump through hoops while they are allowed to get away with much more. Its another way to keep the small guy from competing with the larger corps.

 

[MNKris]

Hey Greyfields -

You probably know this so this is more for the general population, but with the garden stuff you feed your birds, if you want them to remain organic, the garden also has to be certified - meaning all garden produce came from certified seeds, no fertilizers, no herbicides, etc.

 

[greyfields]

I guess that's nothing I have experienced. Our certifiers seem level handed to me. The Organic rules are very plain and simple. There is no fudge room for using prohibited substances or practices. It's all there in the NOA.

I mean, it sounds like a great novel, how agribusiness gets to fake being organic, but really is it happening or is it a conspiracy theory?

Also, for everyone, animal manure is a natural product. It does not need to be from an organic animal. If you fertilize naturally, there are no rules against fertilization. For my vegetable garden, I use seed meal, kelp meal, lime and bone meal. You probably cannot find a more effective fertilizer, it contains no synthetic substances, and costs me far less than buying pre-mixed fertilizers.

 

[greyfields]

Quote:
Correct! And I am not ceritified! My pastures and field crops will be, though. I'm growing about 4 acres of rye and 3 acres of oats I hope to harvest this summer to feed the pigs and chickens with. I'm trying to bring the whole farm thing together here as a system. A business would call it vertical integration, I call it probably the most fun I've had in my life. :0

 

[DrakeMaiden]

I agree that you can only do the best you can. But I also feel that our environment has been compromised. At my old home, we had a neighbor who burned his trash (including styrofoam meat containers) within 50 feet of our "organic" garden. Legally there was no recourse. He was regularly polluting my vegetables crops and soil and I couldn't do a thing.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

Greyfields -- let me know how your oat and rye crops go . . . I'm interested but couldn't find any info on growing them in our climate. And agreed about your last comment.

 

[panner123]

I don't know how the laws & rules are now on organic produce, but just a few years ago they were lax. I was helping someone truck their corn to the produce market in South San Francisco. We unloaded the first two truck loads and went in to collect his money. There was this other guy there getting his check also, he had unload about a third of what we did. I happened to see his check so I asked him what kind of corn he had. He told me it was organic corn and that it bought up to five times what regular corn did. Now I may not be the sharpest tack in the world, but all the loads was organic corn after that. And no one every questioned me. When Paul saw my checks compared to his, he almost had a heart attack. Needless to say, all his produce from that day on was ORGANIC. That was from 1991 until his death in 2003.