What is the genetic colorname for Pumkin Hulsey Gamefowl

[TShelton54]

They have to be Db because Co lightens them to Black Tailed Buff. the Co gene lightens the hens as well as the males. The Db gene does not lighten red pigment too the extent that Co will. There is no Dun in the majority of the birds I have seen. Dun would only lighten the Black areas of e plumage and does not effect red pigment in any way. I have worked with the Dun gene in many different breeds for twenty years and know its effect well. The reason they are so variable may be due to underlying genes. Dark ones may be homozygous for Mh were light ones are heterozygous or not have Mh at all. Cream or white varients may carry a gene like recessive white or Opal. Tim

 

[gallorojo]

Evidently I Still have some things to learn. I do trust you guys who certainly are more knowledgeable than I am. I do not fully understand Mahogany and the Hennie although I have read up on some discussions about them elsewhere. Thanks for your input.

 

[nicalandia]

Whey do you guys not think it' s not dun at work here?

I just dont see Dun here...

 

[nicalandia]

They have to be Db because Co lightens them to Black Tailed Buff. the Co gene lightens the hens as well as the males. Tim

they could be both(Db and Co)... Co will not only lighten them up, Co should make them Buff columbian instead of the restricted black tail orange/buff..... I suspect mahogany its at play here(to even out Co and Db)

 

[TShelton54]

Columbian would not restrict the amount of black in the tail even if heterozygous. The closest I have seen to Pumpkin in another variety is Red Quill Dutch, and they can't be Co and retain the pattern. If Pumpkin carried both Db and Co the hens would not retain Wheaten plumage, but would be closer to Buff. Heterozygouts for Co and Db in Ginger Reds are more buff colored than Ginger, and the pattern starts to break up. The restriction in the tail is the real puzzle because the only other colors to have similar restriction are Buff and Self Red. Is this the effect of Di Dilute or possibly the dilution gene Cb Champagne blond, both of which are carried by Buff and Self Red. TShelton54

 

[gallorojo]

Well if not dun I don't see how you get the black out of the tails and keep the wheaten pattern hens. So, maybe mahogany, dilute, or something else? I am not sure how those work, so, I'm lost discussing them. Sorry

 

[nicalandia]

Columbian would not restrict the amount of black in the tail even if heterozygous.

thats correct, infact Db alone is not capable of doing this(Db stronger restrictor than Co)...

If Pumpkin carried both Db and Co the hens would not retain Wheaten plumage TShelton54

thats what puzzles me, why and how is this restrictor working only on roosters?

The restriction in the tail is the real puzzle because the only other colors to have similar restriction are Buff and Self Red. Is this the effect of Di Dilute or possibly the dilution gene Cb Champagne blond, both of which are carried by Buff and Self Red. TShelton54

well Di Cb and Mahogany were extracted from self buff minorca breed, and they are classified as minor columbian restrictors(at least on Di and Mh) the effect was only observed on males only... so maybe Di, Mh and Cb alone are restricting the boys and leaving the hen wheaten looking? who knows,

Well if not dun I don't see how you get the black out of the tails and keep the wheaten pattern hens. So, maybe mahogany, dilute, or something else? I am not sure how those work, so, I'm lost discussing them. Sorry

its ok, your guess is as good as mine.. I once saw a pumping like game roo and I almost got him, I would have been close to solving this riddle by now....

 

[nicalandia]

years ago Dan Honour did a Buff leghorn x wildtype long tail to create a buff long tail line while F1 the boys looked restricted the Hens looked like your normal wildtype/wheaten heterozygotes...

here is a pic of one of the F1 hens..



now look at this pumpkin hen



maybe they are infact heterozygous Db, Di, Cb

 

[Lorilyn Farms]

How about these two?
This is the roo





These are his parents



And my hen, she's the one on the left.



is this pumpkin? Chocolate? Dun? Another diluter?

 

[logan209]

Depending on what breeds we are speaking of, most standard pumpkin gamefowl come in a couple shades of pumpkin, dark red or cinnomony. Some have a couple shades of orangish color we'll call it. Others can be almost wheaton, and there is the butterscotch or caramel, and lastly canary yellow. most hens look either wheaton or pyle.
Ive only seen a couple pumpkin american and oegb cocks. I own a american game bantam pumpkin cockerel and hen. The cockerel is similar to the last pic posted by nicalandia and the hen is a ginger red/ wheaton looking thing. Very pretty, i can get some pics of them. the oegbs i saw looked somewhat different than ginger reds but similar. As far as genetic make up goes for any pumpkin its iffy prosibly wheaton, ginger red and pyles in the genetic make up. If i were trying to breed the pumpkin color from scratch, Id put a ginger red cock on a wheaton hen and see where that gets ya. then take the choice pullets from that cross back to the ginger cock and the best cockerel from the inbred father daughter cross onto the original hen you started with. just a suggestion. Pardon any spelling or grammer errors.