What is too aggressive when it comes to pecking?

[chickity-chick]

Everyone is always saying separate when the pecking is more than just pecking order stuff. But I can’t find any videos or descriptions of exactly what is “too much”. I am trying to integrate chicks and I let them out for a bit and the big girls swarmed them and let out a few single hard pecks that caused the babies to scream and try and run away- I don’t know if this is normal or not. Can someone please tell me when is too aggressive and when I need to seperate them? Ever since that incident I but a barrier up between the groups because I don’t know what else to do.

 

[MarkJr]

Too much is relentless pecking. On the roost, it’s pecking even though the receiver has their head down and moved as far away as possible. Pinning them against a wall and relentlessly pecking, or following them off the perch so they can peck some more.
Free range, it’s pecking and cornering to continue. Free range you need to make sure you have multiple water stations and feed stations. A couple crabby ol bitties can effectively keep the new ones from eating simply by guarding the food and water stations.
I also draw the line at blood and feather pulling.

 

[rosemarythyme]

"Too much" to me is physical injury or chicks being prevented from eating. Harassment, pecking and screaming is not enough for me to step in.

 

[Malquid]

Too much is relentless pecking. On the roost, it’s pecking even though the receiver has their head down and moved as far away as possible. Pinning them against a wall and relentlessly pecking, or following them off the perch so they can peck some more.
Free range, it’s pecking and cornering to continue. Free range you need to make sure you have multiple water stations and feed stations. A couple crabby ol bitties can effectively keep the new ones from eating simply by guarding the food and water stations.
I also draw the line at blood and feather pulling.

This

chickens self level their pecking order for a lot of reasons but it shouldn’t continue. If one isn’t allowed to tap out and is becoming bloody or obviously bullied hard for extended periods, it likely won’t stop.
All else being equal peace should be established within a day or two.
chickens are fricking cruel to each other

 

[aart]

Here's some tips about....
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.
Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

 

[chickity-chick]

"Too much" to me is physical injury or chicks being prevented from eating. Harassment, pecking and screaming is not enough for me to step in.

When you step in what do you do? Just shoo the big one who’s being aggressive away? And then let them keep poking around and shoo again if they come back to torment more?

 

[chickity-chick]

Here's some tips about....
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.
Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

Thank you so much for this!! Really really helpful! Do you think that expanding and changing up the set up of the run like maybe moving their coop and feeders to a new place? Would maybe also ease the new transition since that would be “scary” and new for the big birds too??

 

[aart]

Thank you so much for this!! Really really helpful! Do you think that expanding and changing up the set up of the run like maybe moving their coop and feeders to a new place? Would maybe also ease the new transition since that would be “scary” and new for the big birds too??

Not sure moving the coop and feeders is a good idea,
(please post dimensions and pics of coop and run)
but rearranging the 'clutter' mentioned in the link at bottom of my post can definitely offer some distraction.

 

[rosemarythyme]

When you step in what do you do? Just shoo the big one who’s being aggressive away? And then let them keep poking around and shoo again if they come back to torment more?

I've never really had to actually step in. As aart posted, having a lot of obstacles/clutter helps give chicks hiding spots as well as gives the flock something to do other than harass each other, so for the most part I expect the chicks to figure out how to best hide from adults as needed.

Closest I come to interfering is around the time the chicks start eating with the flock (so no more protected feeder in brooder) as the adults will often chase them away, even though I have 4 bowls of feed out. In that case, because I have a split run with a gate, I'll feed the adults in one run, then lure the chicks to the other run and latch the gate for a little while to ensure they can eat breakfast without hassle. The adults stop guarding the food once they're full so after 10 min or so I can let the chicks and adults mingle again.

 

[Mamatomany123]

I put my babies in the coop from day 1. It was a see but no touch setup for about 3 weeks. A baby accidentally got out and the big girls paid her no attention. They're now 8 weeks and hang out in the run with the big girls. Every once in a while a baby will try to boss a big girl but she gets put in her place real quick. As long as there is no blood or injury I wouldnt interven.