what is wrong with people-----selling puppies....

[Suellyn]

Quote:
Understood, and to some extent, agreed.

But I think it is important to understand that ultimately we are talking about knowledgeable/responsible breeding VS irresponsible/"luck of the draw" breeding. There is a big difference between breeding two well researched, well known individuals of different breeds, and letting dogs of unknown genetics & descent run amok breeding for generations.

I guess my point was to address the general and popular misconception that "breeds are WEAK, mutts are STRONG". As you (obviously!) know, it is a bit more complicated than that.

 

[greyhorsewoman]

So, by way of an example, let's say that a medium-sized American Cocker Spaniel runs loose through the neighborhood and breeds the Toy Fox Terrier and the Golden Retriever on opposite sides of its owner's property. The TFT and the ACS share patella problems and potential eye problems (both have slightly prominent eyes), the ACS and the GR share hip and elbow problems and possibly skin and coat issues as well. No hybrid vigor there. Now, in six months to a year, puppies from both of these litters get together and produce more puppies.

Just to clarify your statement ... some of the puppies would be sired by the Toy Fox and others by the Golden ... there is only one sire for each puppy, though a litter can have several sires.

And to add a point here ... purposefully bred 'designer' dogs are often bred from inferior purebreds as no reputable breeder of quality stock would ever use them for that purpose. So MORE health/temperament problems are apt to exist.​

 

[LoupGarou]

No, that's not what I said. The ACS is doing the breeding. I could have stated that the ACS was the male, however, and that the other two were females. I apologize that it seemed unclear to you.

However, you are correct about another fact: female dogs can breed with more than one male and produce puppies in the same litter. If the TFT had gotten wanderlust and seduced the male Chihuahua three houses down, she could produce puppies from both the CHI and the ACS (each with their own genetic issues).

 

[klf73]

Quote:
Just to clarify your statement ... some of the puppies would be sired by the Toy Fox and others by the Golden ... there is only one sire for each puppy, though a litter can have several sires.

And to add a point here ... purposefully bred 'designer' dogs are often bred from inferior purebreds as no reputable breeder of quality stock would ever use them for that purpose. So MORE health/temperament problems are apt to exist.

that is correct because the breeders that take the time and know the genetics of their dogs(faults and strengths) would NEVER let that happen to one of their dogs....
they cross dogs they got that have *AKC* papers, just cuz it has papers doens't mean it is quality....

 

[Suellyn]

again... Irresponsible and/or money-driven breeders VS. Backed by knowledge & a love for animals....

 

[greyhorsewoman]

AKC is first and foremost a REGISTRY, not a statement of quality. AKC papers means that you can be pretty well assured that the parents of your puppy are actually from stated sire and dam. The fact that AKC now requires random DNA testing (and mandatory for individuals used frequently) has added to the accuracy of the registry. Quality and conscientious breeding practices are up to each individual.

AKC expanded over the years to be an umbrella of dog activities and many other dog related concerns (health registry, CAR, specific dog law assistance, dog museum, and many others).

While there were always a few, a rash of new 'alternate dog registries' showed up when AKC introduced DNA. Many of them simply require you to 'attest' to the truth of the information you complete on the form and papers are issued. Some provide 'papers' for anything, including 'designer' dog breeds. It is so silly to me (as a former AKC field inspector), that folks will pay money to 'register' with some of these.

In fact, a pet shop I inspected just created it's OWN registry ! Making papers on the office computer was all he was doing. It was SO much cheaper~!

There are other legitimate registries in the U.S. besides AKC ~~ UKC being one, as well as, some specific breed registries, particularly rare breeds, who maintain their own because they aren't recognized by the others.

 

[redhen]

I still stand by my earlier statement. Except in the cases of breeders (pure OR mixed) that have you sign a spay/neuter contract. THose guys i respect, because they are at least TRYING.... But you all have to admit...not many breeders ask you to sign a contract...AND if they do..all it usually says is...you cant get their reg. papers until you show them the animal is fixed. Which...in most cases people dont really care about... because they can still breed their dog with no papers and get a few hundered $ a pup. So....really, the spay/neuter contract dosent help all that much..IMO. Take me for example...i have a male Saint that is def pure Saint...i saw both his parents..but they wernt registered..i bought him for $300..because i wanted a Saint..but i didnt care about papers...now..if i wanted to i could have bred him to my papered saint and had pups and sold them un-registers for $300 each...maybe even more. *and NO folks..i didnt do that! are ya nuts!..

all my beasts are fixed!* and again...i have a male pure English Mastiff pup..(hes about 5 months old now) the breeder is a member on here...and i again bought him for $300...with no papers..i could have paid her more money if i wanted his papers..but eh..i dont care about papers..i'm fixing him as soon as hes old enough...but again..if i wanted to make money on pups..its possible. so..AGAIN.. the spay/neuters contracts are a very good/noble thing..but not really effective for over population of dogs in shelters..etc. So, again i say..a breeder is a breeder folks...AND let me clear something up..i have NO problem with breeders..pure or mixed. I figure its their business..not mine. What i do have a problem with is some breeders putting down others because they let their "not pure" dogs breed..when i can guarantee that some of their pure bred dogs ended up in shelters also.(unless they are the type of breeder that will always take back ANY pup they have EVER sold....and GOD BLESS them if they do!

...)..again..this is just MY opinion folks.. please dont jump on me for having it. We are all entitled to have one ..you included.

 

[klf73]

Quote:
oh, dh would be so jealous, he LOVES mastiffs, you got an awesome deal....

 

[jvls1942]

those dogs are not "breeds".. they are cross breeds or mutts..

a breed is if you can take two of the same kind of dog and have puppies and the puppies look just like their parents..

 

[redhen]

Heehe, and hes a sweetie! We just love him to death! And hes such a good boy around my birds and pigs and goats...they really are gentle giants! Yeah..i did get a good deal on him! Next comes the big bucks for fixing him and getting his belly tacked..UGH!