What would you expect the breeder to do???

[Jeff9118]

I can see that considering there heads are probaly a bit heavier in relation to there size compared to other breeds also. I still dont see them as a fragile breed though. Maybe not a good free range breed since they would be an easy target for predators considering thier vision is obstructed and they cant fly. They didnt seem to be the most alert or smartest breed when I had them. I still keep afew hens beacuse when it comes to setters and mothers you cant beat them.

 

[briteday]

OK, so I guess I find a friend who can do the deed for me, since I don't have the heart. I can see why the breeder would not want them back.

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

Quote:
I'm going to tread lightly here, so if my words come out rather harsh, please accept my apologies now as they aren't meant that way.

If you can't cull a bird, you probably ought to get out of poultry now, because it will inevitably be needed at some point in the future. Its a necessary evil, and while it is always hard to do, it still has to be done from time to time. You can't take them back, well I guess you could but I wouldn't want them if I were that breeder, and you also can't or shouldn't sell them knowing they are ill, so the two choices are try and nurse them back to health, or cull unfortunately.

None of us can tell you where they accquired the illness/injuries, since none of us are there with you, or were involved in the transaction. We can only provide you with our best assumptions based on the information you've presented. Altough it is kind of odd that all four chicks have issues.

Since the birds your friend picked up are healthy and thriving, and your's aren't, I would tend to believe that either they accquired the illness from either you or your friend (flocks of course, not you personally), or you were just very unlucky and got the four ill chicks out of the breeders flock. Even though your flock, and your friends flock may appear healthy and unaffected, they could be carriers of something laying dormant. They could have also gotten ill from a bad batch of feed you bought, and/or equipment that is being used.

 

[Jeff9118]

Quote:
So I'm not sure what makes you think that the breeder would be interested in culling your sick birds. I dont know anyone who wants or likes to do this. If I sold healthy birds and someone brought them back sick I would think they were nuts if they even gave me the idea that they expected me to euth them. You are just going to have to except they are now your birds and your responsibility. I would just work on trying to get them healthy and then if you dont want them, give them to someone who will provide a good home for them.

 

[briteday]

OK, I get it that they're my birds and their fate is up to me.

But, since I want to brood a batch of egglayers every year I have this uncanny urge to want to know where I went wrong with these four. I wouldn't technically consider a silkie and "egglayer breed" but they are generically "chickens" in the bigger picture. The basic care and upbringing I assumed would be about the same.

They have never touched the ground or been exposed to my flock. My egglayer chicks have never touched the ground nor been exposed to any flock, except the hatchery. The four silkies started out in a brooder of their own together (you guys always warn about quarrantine) until they started becoming ill then I have given them each their own box. They are in a temperature controlled room with the appropriate brooder light temperature. I have brooded two batches of egglayers this year in the same room with the same conditions in similar boxes (did not re-use the boxes, they are cardboard therefore disposable). They are in the same room with the other brooder boxes but as far apart as is possible. Both sets of egglayer chicks raised this year are from Privet and all have been extremely healthy, not one illness or fatality. All of the birds get the same care. I am a medical biochemist so the boxes, supplies, food, and sanitation are probably as good as it could be. Bedding is changed daily. Chicks are observed every two hours and a log is kept. Feeders and waterers are sanitized daily and re-filled twice per day. Anyone who touches chicks washes or sanitizes before touching another chick. No one is allowed in the room except our family, and everyone is an adult.

The only break in the quarrantine was when we had to quickly separate the brain bird and we put the other silkies in an egglayer brooder box for about 5 minutes until we could concoct and additional clean brooder.

All of the birds are getting Purina medicated Start 'n Grow. I give water with Rooster Booster brand electrolytes, etc for the first three days when they arrive, and then just regular fresh water after that.

The curiousity lies in the point that all the birds are receiving the same care. And yet I have lost 4 out of 4 from one source and I'm hitting the ball out of the park with 30+ other birds from a different source.

I'm new to chickens so I'm asking to be educated here. And I can take it so give me your opinions. I want to brood chicks every year as replacements so I need to know. If there is no real answer then so be it.

The experienced members around here seem to always suggest a 30 day quarrantine of new birds so I have to assume that even with the best of care it is possible for birds to exhibit symptoms related to their original source for up to 30 days. Yet certainly I don't attribute the brain damage (unless selective breeding is causing a higher incidence) or the curled toes to the source. Both of those could possibly hapen in any batch of chicks. But the respiratory and closed eyes...where did that come from?

Just in case you're curious, I will give it another few days to watch for any improvements in the birds I have left. However, I am not into heroics anymore(I will give meds, extra warmth and separate quarters...but no handfeeding, getting up every 2 hours, no more vet bills). If there is no improvement I will cull the birds (yes, I know that if you intend to raise livestock you have to occasionally "get out the rifle" as my cousin would say and cull the weak and sick...I did it with the brain damaged one, just didn't think I'd have to do it with 4 out of 4 birds in a week) and move on. I accept it as a loss, don't expect or "blame" the breeder as the terms were "once off my property, ..." and she has been very helpful with suggestions regarding remedies.

And I'm curious for those of you who have silkies, how often do you have a brain injury happen? Do you think that the birds with the most beautiful high crests also may have the most exposed brains? Do your birds seem to be more susceptible to infections and illness? Do you actually keep them outside eventually? Do they integrate into a flock of egglayers, stay in the same coop/ runs?

Basically, were my expectations out of line with reality?

 

[cat123]

I tend to think since all 4 of the birds you got from these breeder have an issue that the issue came from the breeder.
Things happened to birds...................... no matter who is at fault

if you are not concerned with the money- give the remaining birds away and do not buy from this breeder again.

and next time go pick up your own birds- then they will not be all these other questions.

THen stop worrying about it, if you have other healthy birds , you are doing the right things.

Last year my husband gave a batch of 200 chicks some medicated water- and about 175 of them died within 48 hours. I do not use medicated anything on a large flock. ( who knows if he mixed it right or not- I do not know I just moved on or if it was bad medication mix) The breeder we got the chicks and the medication mix from- replaced all 175 of the birds- we did not ask them to.... just explained the issue to them

 

[riderbecky]

I can't help with suggestions about your silkies. I'm sorry that your are having to deal with this though.

I have some comments.

1. Being a parent to 3 lovely daughters I feel that children are very resilient and can deal better with the realities of life and death better than most adults. Trust your daughter to understand about the circle of life and the responsibilites of domesticated animal keeping.

2. If you decide not to try silkies again as your broodies perhaps consider other breeds that go broodie quite often. OEGB's, chanteclers, orpintons and other dual purpose heritage breeds are known to be good broodies and mothers.

Good luck

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

Quote:
1. Brain/Head Injuries happen quite often in vaulted skulls, more often than we'd like unfortunately. I'd probably guess-timate 1 to 3 chicks a year if I had to give you a number.

2. High/large crests aren't always an indicator of a high vault, although it is usually the case.

3. No, Silkies are rather hardy I find, although I truly believe that some varieties are hardier than others. They are just as prone to illness as any other breed of chicken.

4. Mine go outside after 3 to 4 weeks in the brooder, with a heat lamp of course.

5. Can't answer the integration question because all I own is Silkies.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

Did you post this on the disease forum?
what is predisone fr?

It is vitamin B and vit E
you need to crush the 1/2 pill
and give it to the chick with eye dropper put in back of throat till you get the 1/2 pill in twice a day for several days and it seems better
has to do with the top knot on the chicks skull
and deficient in vit B

you can also make wet mash with brewers yeast in it and will help the chick it is vit B
vit E you can take a humans vit E 1000 mg capsule and eitherput it in a small amount of wet mash
or cut end of vit E capsule and put in mouth of chick till it all goes in
If adult bird just put capsule in beask and hold beak shut and stroke their neck till they swallow it. this works for crook neck or limber neck in birds as well as having siesures

this is on Alans site under silkie top knot
"The vet suggested prednisone might help afflicted birds. Vitamin E and vitamin B complex seem to help Crookneck birds; these vitamins help the nervous system. All of this is consistent with my theory that an injury to a Silkie's exposed brain produces crookneck. "



you can go to Alan's web site
also the
asbc site on silkies
Alan" <[email protected]>
ContactsTo: [email protected] this article of mine:

http://www.browneggblueegg.com/ Article/Incubato rControl. html



also his web site has lots of silkie articles

any way this is what I told her

 

[NYREDS]

The one with the crooked toes might be an issue. I wouldn't have sold a chick like that-I would have culled it coming out of the incubator. On the other hand I wouldn't have bought a chick like that either.
One of the older chicks was injured by his box mate if I'm reading this correctly. How was that the breeders fault?
The other 2 chicks became sick on days 8 & 10. In other words they appeared healthy when you got them.
All in all I wouldn't expect the breeder to do anything. Maybe replace the crooked toed one, maybe, but even that's a streach.