What would you get color wise

[DaKid]

Ok I have 2 toms - 1 is a red burbon and the other is a royal plam and in the pen I have 4 female s 3 royals and 1 red Burbon .....
Now I'm not sure who mated with who , but I seem to have some chicks that look like royal plams and some that look like red burbons and then there some that looking like my Narragansett babby turkeys and /or my bronze baby turkeys , these turkeys are in a pen my them self and hatch out about 40+ eggs , the bronze and narragansett where purchase as day olds 4 5 weeks ago and are in a different coop and pen ...

so my question is this what do you get from a royal plam vs red burbon or vice vs red burbon vs a royal plan

some of the chicks look like nattagansett turkeys and some like royal plams and others look like red burbon

 

[Tunastopper]

I had this cross before. Some came out Red Bronze, Red Phoenix, and Golden Narragansett.

 

[DaKid]

Thanks

 

[Lagerdogger]

I apologize in advance for the length of this post. If you don't want to read the whole thing, here is the conclusion: If you have pure Bourbon Reds and Pure Royal Palms, you should get toms that look like red bronze, and hens that look like golden narragansett. If you breed these offspring, you can get lots of surprises because of all the hidden recessive genes.

Here's why.

The true "heritage" turkeys, that include Bourbon Red and Royal Palm are homozygous at all the alleles that determine color. What this means is that all their color genes come in matched pairs. For example, in people, there are two genes for eye color. B is for brown eyes and b is for blue eyes. A person that is BB is homozygous for brown eyes. A person that is bb is homozygous for blue eyes. A person that is Bb is heterozygous. They have a blue-eyed gene and a brown-eyed gene. Since brown is dominant over blue, a Bb person has brown eyes. If a BB father has children with a bb mother, all of their children will get a B and a b, and all will be heterozygous Bb with brown eyes. If the parents ar both Bb, some children will be BB, some will be Bb, and some will be bb. the BBs and Bbs will have brown eyes and the bbs will have blue.

In order for colors of turkeys to breed true (Royal Palms make Royal Palms and Bourbon Reds make Bourbon Reds), all the genes need to be homozygous. There are a lot of different genes that determine colors, but only a few matter in your case. These are the genes for wing color, white or not white, narragansett or not narragansett, and red or not red. The genes for a bourbon red turkey are

bbCCNgNgrr.

The b means standard bronze wing (even though it doesn't look like it), the C means not white, the Ng means not narragansett, and the r means red. Notice that the same gene has been passed down from each parent. By this I mean that the red genes are both r, and not Rr.

A Royal Palm is b1b1cgcgngngRR, where b1 is black-winged, cg is palm, ng is narragansett, and R is not red.

If you cross these, all of the offspring will be bb1CcgNgngRr. Notice that the offspring or heterozygous at all of these locations. They will have genes for standard wings and black wings, palm and not palm, Narri and not Narri, and red and not red. So what will they look like. Since stadard wings are dominant over black wings (like brown eyes are dominant over blue), and not white is dominant over palm, and not Narri is dominant of Narri, they will look like standard bronze turkeys with a red gene. Red is not on or off like brown and blue eyes. If you have a single red gene, you get a little red. So you will look like a red bronze. However, it gets a little more complicated. A pure red bronze would have genes bbCCNgNgRr. But your turkeys will have a single Narragansett gene. Hen Narragansetts only need one Narri gene to look like Narragansetts. A golden narragansett hen looks like bbCCNg*Rr, where the * can be Ng or ng. So your hens will look like Golden Narragansetts, but will carry recessive black wings and palm genes.

Finally, Tunastopper got some red phoenix out of the cross. Red Phoeniz is a black-winged turkey. The only way to get a black-winged turkey from crossing a B. Red and a R. Palm is if the B. Red is carrying a recessive black-wing gene, so that the offspring are b1b1.

I bought some Royal Palms, Boubon Reds, and Standad Bronzes for a breeding scheme to produce Golden Phoenix, but all my palms and all my red are toms. Alas, I must wait another year to try again.