What's up with my older chicks with the new ones?

[cjpines]

Very good points. "Plenty of room in the coop" doesn't say how big it really is.

The coop at night is 5x8 ft. The covered outside run is 20x30 ft.

This happened when the little one was eating something by the fence not the plates of food I put out. I think I'll have to make more hiding spots.

 

[cjpines]

Can you lean some plywood along the sides of your run, or make other hiding places? Maybe put out another feeding and watering station? I would leave them unless they're drawing blood. Chicken society isn't always pretty.

I can make some hiding places. I think they would of drawn blood had'n't I not been there to break it up.

Maybe the older ones are getting jealous when I bring out food now. The older ones seem to territorial when I put 4 plates out, they run from one to another to chase the little ones away.

 

[aart]

5x8 of clear floor space sounds good for 6 birds.

Do they have a well balanced chicken feed available at all times?

I make sure there is feed in the feeder 24/7, putting in a little more than they usually eat in 24 hours every morning....if it does run out, I spread things to eat all over the coop until everyone gets their fill again or there's fighting at the feeder.

Food territoriality can occur if they don't always have food available.

 

[azygous]

What you are describing is what happens in a flock as chicks become large enough and have enough self-confidence to challenge the pecking order. This will occur periodically as an individual gets determined to move up in rank. It's commonly triggered by access to food, especially treats.

You can confirm if this is just routine pecking order skirmishes or serious bullying by observing the flock. How are they behaving normally? Are any of the younger ones trying to eat at the feeder when they see an older one there eating? Are any of the younger ones going up to an older one and standing there facing her, not moving? This is what it looks like when a younger one challenges an older flock member. Sometimes the older one will flare her neck feathers and chase the younger one away.

The normal is for older ones to chase younger ones away from treats. If the younger ones chase away older ones, they're challenging the pecking order.

If it's bullying, usually no food needs to be involved. There's less chance it's bullying if it's over competition for treats. Is a single individual being singled out? If so, it's probably bullying.

There is rarely bloodshed either way. Usually things sort themselves out pretty quickly. It behooves us to let the pecking order resolve itself of we can. You can make yourself crazy trying to intervene, and chances are you aren't going to make much of a difference.

 

[cjpines]

5x8 of clear floor space sounds good for 6 birds.

Do they have a well balanced chicken feed available at all times?

I make sure there is feed in the feeder 24/7, putting in a little more than they usually eat in 24 hours every morning....if it does run out, I spread things to eat all over the coop until everyone gets their fill again or there's fighting at the feeder.

Food territoriality can occur if they don't always have food available.

They have food avail 24/7. It seems to be the treats I give them in plates every afternoon that makes them mean. I give them, veggies, fruit, scratch, raisins, grapes, kale and things like that. I put out 4 plates all around the run in separate spots, but the older ones still chase the younger ones away from their plates.

 

[cjpines]

What you are describing is what happens in a flock as chicks become large enough and have enough self-confidence to challenge the pecking order. This will occur periodically as an individual gets determined to move up in rank. It's commonly triggered by access to food, especially treats.

You can confirm if this is just routine pecking order skirmishes or serious bullying by observing the flock. How are they behaving normally? Are any of the younger ones trying to eat at the feeder when they see an older one there eating? Are any of the younger ones going up to an older one and standing there facing her, not moving? This is what it looks like when a younger one challenges an older flock member. Sometimes the older one will flare her neck feathers and chase the younger one away.

The normal is for older ones to chase younger ones away from treats. If the younger ones chase away older ones, they're challenging the pecking order.

If it's bullying, usually no food needs to be involved. There's less chance it's bullying if it's over competition for treats. Is a single individual being singled out? If so, it's probably bullying.

There is rarely bloodshed either way. Usually things sort themselves out pretty quickly. It behooves us to let the pecking order resolve itself of we can. You can make yourself crazy trying to intervene, and chances are you aren't going to make much of a difference.

It's so funny. The younger ones from first day I put them all together wanted to make friends with the older ones. Not happening. Yes, they will go to the feeder when the older ones are feeding and get pushed away. I have two feeders out now. I'll have to watch them without treats around to see if it's just bullying. They seem to be picking on the smallest young bird. Your detail description is great and very educational for me. Tks.

 

[azygous]

Then your younger ones are attempting to challenge the older girls for a higher rank in the pecking order by trying to move in on the feed dish. It's a normal reaction, then, for the older girl to put the youngster back in her proper place. As long as the youngsters don't push it, things can go along rather peacefully.

Once in a great while, you will see two hens going at it vigorously with flared neck feathers and even biting each others combs. I've seen stand-offs where they're both just hanging onto each others combs and neither willing to concede. That's a serious challenge, but even one that is that intense will resolve itself.

When there's bullying is when it gets complicated. It usually involves an individual who is experiencing declining self-confidence for some reason. It could be age, health problems, or too many challenges from youngsters. It's usually another individual very close or at the bottom of the pecking order that picks up on this, and begins a bullying rampage. If the hen doesn't stand up to the bully, the bullying can be joined in by others.

I have such a hen right now. Because of her complete and total loss of self-confidence, not just one, but all of the youngest members of the flock and a couple of the older ones bully her so badly she can no longer get enough to eat. When they go after her, two will chase her down and literally get onto her back as she is crouching in submission and stomp her and peck her. She's scared to even roost at night. I've given up trying to intercede and she now spends days in her own safe enclosure inside the run where she can still interact, but safely with the others. I bring her inside at night to sleep in a crate in the garage. She seems to be thriving now, albeit in an artificial arrangement.

Sadly, bullying is a part of the pecking order, too, but harder to deal with.

 

[cjpines]

Then your younger ones are attempting to challenge the older girls for a higher rank in the pecking order by trying to move in on the feed dish. It's a normal reaction, then, for the older girl to put the youngster back in her proper place. As long as the youngsters don't push it, things can go along rather peacefully.

Once in a great while, you will see two hens going at it vigorously with flared neck feathers and even biting each others combs. I've seen stand-offs where they're both just hanging onto each others combs and neither willing to concede. That's a serious challenge, but even one that is that intense will resolve itself.

When there's bullying is when it gets complicated. It usually involves an individual who is experiencing declining self-confidence for some reason. It could be age, health problems, or too many challenges from youngsters. It's usually another individual very close or at the bottom of the pecking order that picks up on this, and begins a bullying rampage. If the hen doesn't stand up to the bully, the bullying can be joined in by others.

I have such a hen right now. Because of her complete and total loss of self-confidence, not just one, but all of the youngest members of the flock and a couple of the older ones bully her so badly she can no longer get enough to eat. When they go after her, two will chase her down and literally get onto her back as she is crouching in submission and stomp her and peck her. She's scared to even roost at night. I've given up trying to intercede and she now spends days in her own safe enclosure inside the run where she can still interact, but safely with the others. I bring her inside at night to sleep in a crate in the garage. She seems to be thriving now, albeit in an artificial arrangement.

Sadly, bullying is a part of the pecking order, too, but harder to deal with.

She's so lucky to have you to protect her as much as you can. All this is good to know. I would of never known any of this and thank you for your expert advice and experience.

 

[azygous]

Indeed. My poor little Flo, the victim, was a hellion in her "youth". At age five, she is now dealing with some health issues, and I believe that plus the fact she was such a little baddie at one time and spent so much time in "jail", she can no longer deal with challenges. (Removing an individual from the flock too often can lead to expulsion from the flock.)

Back when she was younger, "serving time-out", she would get challenges by others through the fence. She always responded and the two would have a nice little kerfluffle through the wire mesh. Now when a nemesis confronts Flo through the fence, Flo just stands there silently as if to say, " Bug off, you can't touch me."

If I can give you just one piece of advice it would be to let things sort themselves out as much as possible. Interfering with the pecking order can be a delicate thing.

 

[cjpines]

Indeed. My poor little Flo, the victim, was a hellion in her "youth". At age five, she is now dealing with some health issues, and I believe that plus the fact she was such a little baddie at one time and spent so much time in "jail", she can no longer deal with challenges. (Removing an individual from the flock too often can lead to expulsion from the flock.)

Back when she was younger, "serving time-out", she would get challenges by others through the fence. She always responded and the two would have a nice little kerfluffle through the wire mesh. Now when a nemesis confronts Flo through the fence, Flo just stands there silently as if to say, " Bug off, you can't touch me."

If I can give you just one piece of advice it would be to let things sort themselves out as much as possible. Interfering with the pecking order can be a delicate thing.

Thank you again and we'll see how it goes.