Wheaten and Blue wheaten Marans Discussion Thread

[annaraven]

Cheryl - I don't know anything about the coloring for the wheaten marans, but I am looking forward to seeing what you end up with. (and maybe take your "cast-off" pullets that don't make the grade).

You guys should've seen the gorgeous roo Cheryl picked up - he's so pretty. I'm looking forward to pics of his babies!

 

[berkeleysprings]

yes we need more people posting recent up to date pictures of there flocks , dont be shy people
soon as the sun comes out tomarrow ( after hunting ) il post some my self and my birds again but id love to see some strange lol ,
Quote:

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Why in the world would you breed Bl. wheaten and Wheaten in the same pen unless you only wanted Bl. Wheaten. If you are breeding Wheatens you sure do not want Bl. wheaten mixed in with them. That is what is screwing up all the colors the way it already is with Marans. If you just want dark eggs go ahead and mix them anyway you would like. I just can not believe all the mixed up junk that will be showing up.

Snowbird...you've got to do better than that. For those of us just learning, you should put some explanation in with it so we can understand. Also, if what you are saying is true, by breeding Blue Wheaten with Wheaten will create more Blue Wheaten, I don't see how that is mixing them up.

Putting a Blue Wheaten male over Wheaten females will produce some Blue Wheaten young. It will also produce some wheaten young and this is where the problem can start, if you put these back in the wheaten pen you will have put the Blue Wheaten gene into your wheaten. These crosses should be left in the blue wheaten pen or culled.

If you watch the egg ads you will also see the Black Copper and Blue Copper in the same pen and selling eggs from the pen. For the Black Copper you do not want the Blue mixed.

First thing most people want to do when they start with Marans is mix all the colors and see what they get in young. Nothing wrong with this as they are the ones paying for the feed. The only problem I have with this is they sell all the eggs they can to other new Marans people , and eventually they will leave the Marans because of all the junk.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Why in the world would you breed Bl. wheaten and Wheaten in the same pen unless you only wanted Bl. Wheaten. If you are breeding Wheatens you sure do not want Bl. wheaten mixed in with them. That is what is screwing up all the colors the way it already is with Marans. If you just want dark eggs go ahead and mix them anyway you would like. I just can not believe all the mixed up junk that will be showing up.

Don, the Wheaten/Blue Wheaten mix works like any Blue/Black/Splash variety.
Mixing them does not screw up the colors

I disagree with what you are saying. Put a wheaten cross back into your Pure wheatens that has the Blue added and see if it messes up your Pure wheaten. There is nothing wrong with crossing the wheaten females with the Blue wheaten males as long as you do not put the young from this mating back into the pure wheaten flock.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Exactly what I was thinking. . . If someone wants a Bl/Black breeding, let them do it. There's no other way to do it except Bl/Bl or Splash x Black

Messing up colors is doing things like breeding cuckoo x black copper without genetic experience, or breeding wheaten x black copper, or golden salmon x white or something. . .

Illia, there is nothing wrong with breeding your male to wheaten female unless you put the offspring back into a wheaten flock. You do not want to have the Blue gene in your wheaten. This is just the way I would do it and anyone else can do what they would like as they buy the feed.

 

[pinkchick]

Putting a Blue Wheaten male over Wheaten females will produce some Blue Wheaten young. It will also produce some wheaten young and this is where the problem can start, if you put these back in the wheaten pen you will have put the Blue Wheaten gene into your wheaten. These crosses should be left in the blue wheaten pen or culled.

If you watch the egg ads you will also see the Black Copper and Blue Copper in the same pen and selling eggs from the pen. For the Black Copper you do not want the Blue mixed.

First thing most people want to do when they start with Marans is mix all the colors and see what they get in young. Nothing wrong with this as they are the ones paying for the feed. The only problem I have with this is they sell all the eggs they can to other new Marans people , and eventually they will leave the Marans because of all the junk.

First of all WELCOME BACK DON!!!!!!

No..........the Wheatens produced from a Blue Wheaten to a Wheaten mating will not carry the blue gene, ONLY A BIRD THAT IS BLUE CARRIES THE BLUE GENE. So putting a Wheaten produced from a Blue Wh x Wheaten back into a Wheaten breeding pen will not hurt one thing and blue cannot be passed on this way...it is simply a Wheaten no blue gene reccessive or hiding.

Blue x Black will produce 50% blue and 50% black these black offspring DO NOT CARRY the blue gene.....they are Black, they cannot pass along a blue gene to their offspring if bred back to a black bird.
The only way what you are describing can happen is that if someone has a blue bird that appears black, this is the importance of test mating. Blues that are so dark can pass as Black and unsuspecting people may not know it and then breed them, but this does not mess with the Black genetics. Blue is just a diluter gene that's all.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
First of all WELCOME BACK DON!!!!!!

No..........the Wheatens produced from a Blue Wheaten to a Wheaten mating will not carry the blue gene, ONLY A BIRD THAT IS BLUE CARRIES THE BLUE GENE. So putting a Wheaten produced from a Blue Wh x Wheaten back into a Wheaten breeding pen will not hurt one thing and blue cannot be passed on this way...it is simply a Wheaten no blue gene reccessive or hiding.

Blue x Black will produce 50% blue and 50% black these black offspring DO NOT CARRY the blue gene.....they are Black, they cannot pass along a blue gene to their offspring if bred back to a black bird.
The only way what you are describing can happen is that if someone has a blue bird that appears black, this is the importance of test mating. Blues that are so dark can pass as Black and unsuspecting people may not know it and then breed them, but this does not mess with the Black genetics. Blue is just a diluter gene that's all.

Kim, I appreciate what you say but with the way all the Marans have been bred for centurys I would not trust the Genetic experts when it comes to Marans. To test mate all of the Marans we own would be almost impossible unless we only used very limited matings. I keep my better females and males as long as they are productive in what I am looking for.

I quess I just have to say I have different ideas when it comes to breeding Chickens. I just do not believe you can sit down and come up with genetic formula when the Marans are crossed with everything imaginable already. The very best way to breed these chickens is Double mate them and mark and band all of the young.

 

[pinkchick]

I understand fully what you are saying Don and I agree, but when it comes to the blue gene, it is pretty cut and dry. Blue does not alter patterns or other colors on a bird unless the bird gets 2 copies of blue = Splash, splash is the only thing that will effect patterns and all colors, the 2 copies of the blue gene will dilute all colors on the bird to splash, but it will allow some leakage of copper, red or gold, light blue and dark blue. One copy of the blue gene = a blue bird with patterns such as copper, wheaten, cuckoo, salmon will only be effected where the bird would have normally been black, but as in all varieties of Marans we have to remember that we will deal with melanizers as well that can alter some appearances in the birds thus in some cases covering some leakage or covering the copper all together, but a bird can only show what they have if they are not blue to begin with they do not have it. The only exception to this rule is if someone doesn't know if a bird that appears black is truly blue, but there are tell tale signs to look for in a very very dark blue bird that some do not know to look for so these birds get bred and then someone wonders why they have a blue chick pop up out of their what would have been Black birds or some other variety. Now with that said I can see where some would not be able to tell the difference between some Blue Wheatens and regular Wheatens without being very versed in blue genetics and blue behaviors as some blues can be so light that it is very hard to discern blue from a normal Wheaten (I'm speaking on females only because if it were a male one would definately know) but generally speaking there is usually a visual sign of blue and one has to be versed in it to recognise it. Blue only changes the color it does not change anything else.

You can take a Black Copper and breed it to a Splash Copper and you will get 100% Blue Copper offspring, then you can take those Blue Copper offspring and breed them back to the Black Copper and get 50% Black Coppers and 50% Blue Coppers and breed the Black Coppers from this mating again back to the original Black Copper and you will get 100% Black Coppers. They will be just that.......Black Coppers and will not throw anything else unless there are other genes hiding in there such as eWh or eb or e+ or ebc, blue will not effect these genes except in their appearance by making them blue.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Kim, My reasoning is basically that we will never know what is involved with past breeding programs, With all the problems that the BC already has I would never breed a BC from the Blue Copper back into the BC pen. That is where all the undercolor problems we have come into play.

I am sitting on the fence as I have no eggs setting, no chicks and no plans at present to have any.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Kim, My reasoning is basically that we will never know what is involved with past breeding programs, With all the problems that the BC already has I would never breed a BC from the Blue Copper back into the BC pen. That is where all the undercolor problems we have come into play.

I am sitting on the fence as I have no eggs setting, no chicks and no plans at present to have any.

I guess we have to agree to disagree Don.

I do not believe that the undercolor problems come from Blue......in my mind there can be no way blue can cause undercolor issues, in my mind only other genetics such as eWh, eb, e+ or ebc can effect undercolor and there are many other factors such as protiens, amino acids sequences, haplo insufficiencies, eumelanin enhancers, eumelanin restrictors, secondary patterns, pheomelanin intesifiers and diluters and hormonal influences. We must remember that chickens are biological creatures and over time incremental changes in DNA happen....both genetic and non- genetic factors play a roll here.

We may never know but the ride sure is fun!!!!!!!!!!!!