When will they unite?

[dnx717]

My first flock was 9 birds, 6 breeds. When I decided to go back to school we found out that my wife was pregnant with our second child so we decided it would be too much work for her and I would have no time to keep up our flock. Six months after my son was born my wife told me she really wanted chickens again so I built another coop and we got 3 chicks from a local breeder, 2 Wheaton Ameraucanas and a Black Sex Link. Fast forward 10 months and BOTH of our Wheatons go broody at the same time (egg production cut to 1/3!!!). Well, after some research I saw that getting a chick for each hen would pull them out of being broody and they would protect that chick from the rest of the flock... plus you all know how chicken math works... So I convince my bride that 2 more chickens would be a good idea. As luck would have it, the day I got the chicks (another Ameraucana that will look like a hawk and a Barred Rock) both of my Wheatons broke from being broody on their own. So, I looked in to integrating the chicks into the flock. I kept them physically separated but still able to interact on the existing flock's terms for about 3 weeks. For the past couple of weeks they have not been physically separated and we have had no negative instances of the original flock (which was quite peaceful to begin with) being aggressive towards the newbies. The two Wheatons were the ones that were most aggressive/curious to begin with, which surprised me b/c neither of them are the head hen. So this brings me to my question: my chickens free range nearly 100% of the time. I am glad that I don't have any problems with aggression towards my new chicks but when they head out of the coop in the morning in to the yard it's like I have two flocks. The 3 hens keep completely to themselves and the 2 chicks keep completely to themselves. The hens don't try to interact with the chicks, and the chicks don't try to interact with the hens. Part of me thinks this is for the best on account of not wanting any attacks, but I'm used to seeing 9 birds (my first flock) all move as one flock and now it feels like I have two flocks. So, when can I expect the two flocks to unite?

 

[Eckielady]

They may never unite. Chickens can definitely have flocks within flocks. As they age they may feel safer and more comfortable hanging out together. No way to force it.

 

[centrarchid]

They have different needs and risks. Chicks feed more frequently and target more insect prey which can get them to move about more quickly while foraging. Adults are larger and thus at less risk to sight oriented predators so hens can get out away from cover more and range further. Chicks may also be more concerned about staying warm so will choose micro-habitats that are a little warmer. My harems do stick together better as mixed age groups so likely you may still have subtle social interactions that are enforcing a to flock arrangement that does not operate in proper harems.

 

[dnx717]

They have different needs and risks. Chicks feed more frequently and target more insect prey which can get them to move about more quickly while foraging. Adults are larger and thus at less risk to sight oriented predators so hens can get out away from cover more and range further. Chicks may also be more concerned about staying warm so will choose micro-habitats that are a little warmer. My harems do stick together better as mixed age groups so likely you may still have subtle social interactions that are enforcing a to flock arrangement that does not operate in proper harems.

I live in the Phoenix area where last week we hit 119... they definitely don't have to worry about staying warm, lol. However, the size/prey makes a great point. My chicks stay in my planters hidden by my hibiscus bush whereas the hens don't try to stay covered by brush.

 

[dnx717]

They may never unite. Chickens can definitely have flocks within flocks. As they age they may feel safer and more comfortable hanging out together. No way to force it.

I did wonder if they may hang out more once my chicks become hens...

 

[User395221]

My girls don't really hang out together when they are "loose", but they are only loose in my suburban backyard which would no doubt affect their behaviour - they don't need to keep together to be safe. They just spread out and each pretty much does her own thing. If I uncover some good bug-areas, they'll all check it out, but otherwise, they are very independent. When the littlies are grown, you might get them together if you provide something yummy, but they might just split up again once they've finished it.

 

[aart]

They won't meld into the main flock until they start laying,
then they will move up in pecking order.
They still might hang out together apart from the older birds tho.

 

[aart]

Welcome to BYC @BurchPerch !
Usually best to start a new thread,
it can get confusing to address 2 different situations in one thread,
but it looks like the OP's questions have been answered.

I'd say it's time to fully integrate your 2 groups.
Are the bigs infiltrating the littles safe space?
Is your coop and run big enough for all the birds?
Dimensions, in feet by feet, would help and pics too.

In case you haven't seen it:
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.


This used to be a better search, new format has reduced it's efficacy, but still:
Read up on integration..... BYC advanced search>titles only>integration
This is good place to start reading, BUT some info is outdated IMO:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/adding-to-your-flock

 

[Mrs. K]

I have often had sub flocks in my flock. However, either or both, once they start laying, and/or we get cold weather, tends to meld mine into one flock.

 

[BurchPerch]

Hi all! This is my first post and I'm posting here because we are experiencing a similar situation. If I should be putting it in a new thread, let me know. I'm new at this.

We have 3 "bigs" (BR) who are 1 yr 5 mo. and 2 "littles" (a RIR and BO) who are almost 5 months. This week, one of the littles started laying (!) but the bigs still treat her what I would call badly. They chase her off at every opportunity.

In our run, we have what we call "the Clubhouse" which is a fenced-in area within the big run where we have food and water for the littles. They can get in and out of it - originally the opening was very small so that only the littles could pass through. It's where they've been for 2 months. We thought that they would be able to establish the pecking order this way, while still keeping safe. The littles are not so little anymore. We had to expand the doorway so that they can now get in and out. The littles sleep outside and the bigs go into the coop to roost at night.

My question is - Should we remove the Clubhouse walls so that the 2 groups are forced to be together when they are in the run? Or should we let it continue to where the littles are constantly running from the bigs and hiding in their private club? It seems sad to peck around in such a small area, but I'm a human and can't think like a chicken on this one. Thank you in advance

Welcome to BYC @BurchPerch !
Usually best to start a new thread,
it can get confusing to address 2 different situations in one thread,
but it looks like the OP's questions have been answered.

I'd say it's time to fully integrate your 2 groups.
Are the bigs infiltrating the littles safe space?
Is your coop and run big enough for all the birds?
Dimensions, in feet by feet, would help and pics too.

In case you haven't seen it:
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.


This used to be a better search, new format has reduced it's efficacy, but still:
Read up on integration..... BYC advanced search>titles only>integration
This is good place to start reading, BUT some info is outdated IMO:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/adding-to-your-flock

Thank you, @aart and @Mrs-k . I will gather more info for you and delete it, then move this to another thread. (Not sure if I know how to do that but let me look...)