Which chicken breeds have more white meat?

[cw]

Quote:
In that response, I was speaking specifically to the widely practiced production methods and not the birds, at least mostly. Lazy J can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that is what he was talking about. I have found him to be a strong proponent of that system.

When they are raised as intended (in large confinement settings), they have the listed health problems. When they are raised by unconventional means such as those you practice, those problems are at least reduced.

Oh, and the Cornish Cross is not a breed. It's a hybrid.

if cornish x is not a breed because its crossed with other breeds for desirible traits then by all means give me a breed thats not
ex:
cant say barred rock (as they are black javas and cohchins crossed) (do you call mutt dogs hybrids?)

hybrid is when 2 completly differnt species cross
ex:
guinea + chicken = guin hen
jack rabbit + antalope = jack a lope
and would be sterile (or lack the abilty to breed)




the hybrid is used very loose by hacheries to make there birds sound better

 

[Buster52]

Oy.

"A breed is a group of domestic animals with a homogeneous appearance, behavior, and other characteristics that distinguish it from other animals of the same species. When bred together, animals of the same breed pass on these uniform traits to their offspring, and this ability—known as "breeding true"—is a definitive requirement for a breed..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breed

Barred Plymouth Rock is an established breed recognized by the APA that breeds true. Cornish Rock Cross are none of that.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Quote:
"The purpose of this study was to examine the prevalence and the extent of leg problems in broiler chicks reared in conventional production systems in Denmark. The survey, which was designed as a cross-sectional study, included 28 broiler flocks (8% of the total number of flocks in Denmark); 2800 chicks in total (100 chicks per flock) were investigated for the occurrence of leg disorders in relation to animal welfare. The leg disorders included impaired walking ability, tibial dyschondroplasia (TD), varus/valgus deformations, crooked toes, foot pad burns, and asymmetrical development of the tarsometatarsus. The mean prevalence of impaired walking ability (gait score > O), tibial dyschondroplasia (TD score > 0), varus/valgus deformations, crooked toes and foot pad burns was 75.0%, 57.1%, 37.0%, 32.6% and 42.0%, respectively."

Source: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=622108
"Monitoring leg problems in broilers: a survey of commercial broiler production in Denmark"
World's Poultry Science Journal (2001), 57:55-69 Cambridge University Press

Been reading up on this. An argument can be made that non-conventional rearing such as Jaku and others practice reduces these health problems, as suggested in some of the literature I have seen, but not when they are raised as intended. That system is rife with health problems.

They were talking about foot burns. Which would be caused from lack of litter. Basically they are walking on their own manure and the ammonia burns the skin right off, turns it black. I would like to see the percentages of leg problems.

Foot burns are not health issues but merely management issues. However I do agree that the commercial way of production is riddled with health issues.

 

[dancingbear]

Quote:
Sorry, that's incorrect. A hybrid can be either a cross between two species, such as a horse+donkey=mule, OR a cross between two varieties of the same species, either plants or animals, it doesn't matter. They still have to be in the same family, like equine w/equine, curcubit w/curcubit, (like a squash and a gourd) etc. If you stray too far outside those natural barriers, the cross just won't happen)

That's how you get hybrid corn, or hybrid tomatoes. They aren't crossed with other species, (like corn X with tomato, which cannot happen in nature, BTW, just like the jackalope cannot happen in nature) just different varieties. The seeds or offspring are NOT always sterile, they just don't breed true. Crosses of different species are usually sterile, but not different varieties.

If you breed a buff Orpington to a buff Orpington, you get more buff Orpingtons.
If you breed a buff Orpington to a black Australorp, you get a hybrid cross of Orp/Austra. Some will resemble one parent, some will resemble the other, some will bear traits of both.
If you breed those offspring to each other, again, some will look like orps, some like Austras, some like the blend, with varying degrees of different combos. The results will be unpredictable, other than as percentages.
Once a stable cross is achieved by continuing to select for certain traits, and the results become predictable and stable, (all the offspring come out the same, one generation after the other) then you no longer have a hybrid. You then have a breed. (Orpalorps, maybe?) Getting the breed recognized, is a whole 'nother process, but that's the bones of it.

The standard broiler hybrids have been breed for generations to the point that the breeders know what the next cross will produce, and that's how they get the parent lines and the predictable outcomes. But the broilers are still hybrids, and if you can keep them long enough to breed, you'll have a variety of outcomes with the offspring. Some will look just like the parents, some will not.

But they'll all taste just like chicken.

 

[Buster52]

Quote:
"The purpose of this study was to examine the prevalence and the extent of leg problems in broiler chicks reared in conventional production systems in Denmark. The survey, which was designed as a cross-sectional study, included 28 broiler flocks (8% of the total number of flocks in Denmark); 2800 chicks in total (100 chicks per flock) were investigated for the occurrence of leg disorders in relation to animal welfare. The leg disorders included impaired walking ability, tibial dyschondroplasia (TD), varus/valgus deformations, crooked toes, foot pad burns, and asymmetrical development of the tarsometatarsus. The mean prevalence of impaired walking ability (gait score > O), tibial dyschondroplasia (TD score > 0), varus/valgus deformations, crooked toes and foot pad burns was 75.0%, 57.1%, 37.0%, 32.6% and 42.0%, respectively."

Source: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=622108
"Monitoring leg problems in broilers: a survey of commercial broiler production in Denmark"
World's Poultry Science Journal (2001), 57:55-69 Cambridge University Press

They were talking about foot burns. Which would be caused from lack of litter. Basically they are walking on their own manure and the ammonia burns the skin right off, turns it black. I would like to see the percentages of leg problems.

Key word is "respectively", which would make it...

Impaired walking ability (gait score > O), 75.0%
tibial dyschondroplasia (TD score > 0), 57.1%
varus/valgus deformations , 37.0%
crooked toes (speaks for itself), 32.6%
foot pad burns, 42.0%

 

[Neil Grassbaugh]

So what do the parents look like?

 

[cw]

Quote:
Sorry, that's incorrect. A hybrid can be either a cross between two species, such as a horse+donkey=mule, OR a cross between two varieties of the same species, either plants or animals, it doesn't matter. They still have to be in the same family, like equine w/equine, curcubit w/curcubit, (like a squash and a gourd) etc. If you stray too far outside those natural barriers, the cross just won't happen)

That's how you get hybrid corn, or hybrid tomatoes. They aren't crossed with other species, (like corn X with tomato, which cannot happen in nature, BTW, just like the jackalope cannot happen in nature) just different varieties. The seeds or offspring are NOT always sterile, they just don't breed true. Crosses of different species are usually sterile, but not different varieties.

If you breed a buff Orpington to a buff Orpington, you get more buff Orpingtons.
If you breed a buff Orpington to a black Australorp, you get a hybrid cross of Orp/Austra. Some will resemble one parent, some will resemble the other, some will bear traits of both.
If you breed those offspring to each other, again, some will look like orps, some like Austras, some like the blend, with varying degrees of different combos. The results will be unpredictable, other than as percentages.
Once a stable cross is achieved by continuing to select for certain traits, and the results become predictable and stable, (all the offspring come out the same, one generation after the other) then you no longer have a hybrid. You then have a breed. (Orpalorps, maybe?) Getting the breed recognized, is a whole 'nother process, but that's the bones of it.

The standard broiler hybrids have been breed for generations to the point that the breeders know what the next cross will produce, and that's how they get the parent lines and the predictable outcomes. But the broilers are still hybrids, and if you can keep them long enough to breed, you'll have a variety of outcomes with the offspring. Some will look just like the parents, some will not.

But they'll all taste just like chicken.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_(biology)
the jack a lope was a joke to add some humor
please read

 

[dancingbear]

Quote:
Yeah, I knew the jackalope was a joke, but it's also a good example of something that can't really happen.

From wiki, on a page that was linked from the link you posted:

1. Hybrids between different subspecies within a species (such as between the Bengal tiger and Siberian tiger) are known as intra-specific hybrids. Hybrids between different species within the same genus (such as between lions and tigers) are sometimes known as interspecific hybrids or crosses. Hybrids between different genera (such as between sheep and goats) are known as intergeneric hybrids. Extremely rare interfamilial hybrids have been known to occur (such as the guineafowl hybrids).[3] No interordinal (between different orders) animal hybrids are known.

2. The second type of hybrid consists of crosses between populations, breeds or cultivars within a single species. This meaning is often used in plant and animal breeding, where hybrids are commonly produced and selected because they have desirable characteristics not found or inconsistently present in the parent individuals or populations. This flow of genetic material between populations or races is often called hybridization.

 

[ultasol]

I am very lucky. I have not experienced a 4% loss in any breed I have worked with, however I am not a commercial or large scale producer and I am sure this increases the amount of attention each bird/pen of birds gets and reduces mortality.

I would be interested in comparing dorkings with buckeyes and delawares. It would be neat to get eggs from three decent breeders of these birds, hatch them, and take detailed notes on performance, gain, feed efficiency, and taste.