White Orpingtons

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

The birds in this post are English type, so yes my birds have the same structure/ build. The first photo is Phoebe-a hatchery American type blue orp I used to have, the next photo is an English type blue orp I currently have and her counterparts. There is a huge difference in them

This is the misinformation I have a problem with-- hatchery birds are not "American type." They're hatchery type. The birds Fran shared are American type. The blue bird you shared is hatchery type and the other two could easily be shown under the APA standard these days.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that many folks in these backyard poultry groups think this way... they think all large fluffy round Orps, regardless of actual quality, are "English type" and hatchery birds are "American type."

I'm in the group you shared, @ColtHandorf, and the exact conversation you reference is one that was prompted by assumptions like the one illustrated above. A lot of folks hawking "English" Orpingtons have probably never laid eyes on ANY standard at all and wouldn't know correct type, regardless of which, if it hit them over the head.

At least that's my observations in seeing what's being sold as "English" Orpingtons in all these groups and even at swaps and sales, these days. Inevitably someone will point out the superiority of their largely unimpressive and equally non-standard "English" type birds to something they think is an example of "American" type and is, in actuality, just a hatchery bird.

Case in point, from some random FB group:

On the other hand, this is a winning pullet at an APA show, so I guess this IS "American Type" now.

Anyway, I guess my point is just to say that the "English" vs "American" labels mean very little here unless it is specifically accompanied by "Standardbred" these days.

 

[Fran James]

This is the misinformation I have a problem with-- hatchery birds are not "American type." They're hatchery type. The birds Fran shared are American type. The blue bird you shared is hatchery type and the other two could easily be shown under the APA standard these days.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that many folks in these backyard poultry groups think this way... they think all large fluffy round Orps, regardless of actual quality, are "English type" and hatchery birds are "American type."

I'm in the group you shared, @ColtHandorf, and the exact conversation you reference is one that was prompted by assumptions like the one illustrated above. A lot of folks hawking "English" Orpingtons have probably never laid eyes on ANY standard at all and wouldn't know correct type, regardless of which, if it hit them over the head.

At least that's my observations in seeing what's being sold as "English" Orpingtons in all these groups and even at swaps and sales, these days. Inevitably someone will point out the superiority of their largely unimpressive and equally non-standard "English" type birds to something they think is an example of "American" type and is, in actuality, just a hatchery bird.

Case in point, from some random FB group:View attachment 3381374

On the other hand, this is a winning pullet at an APA show, so I guess this IS "American Type" now.

View attachment 3381376

Anyway, I guess my point is just to say that the "English" vs "American" labels mean very little here unless it is specifically accompanied by "Standardbred" these days.

Judges at these shows can only pick the one Orp that is best example at that given show. At the bigger shows you get to see a better example of what is "APA" type. Smaller shows you may not get the better APA type Orp breeders to attend. People who sell like to say "Import" or "English" to boost sales. It is a sales gimmick. This IS the best APA Orpington within the past 50, that is not me saying this that is Alan, who in my judgement is a better judge than many who now judge shows for Orpingtons. IF you join a club you still get the same kind of people, who wanna say "English" and how our SOP needs to be more like the Euro type. My best example here is the closest to the best in APA type that I will ever see. I seen this bird on several occasions in person and this is the BEST. She won Grand Champion at APA shows many times.

 

[Amer]

This is the misinformation I have a problem with-- hatchery birds are not "American type." They're hatchery type. The birds Fran shared are American type. The blue bird you shared is hatchery type and the other two could easily be shown under the APA standard these days.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that many folks in these backyard poultry groups think this way... they think all large fluffy round Orps, regardless of actual quality, are "English type" and hatchery birds are "American type."

I'm in the group you shared, @ColtHandorf, and the exact conversation you reference is one that was prompted by assumptions like the one illustrated above. A lot of folks hawking "English" Orpingtons have probably never laid eyes on ANY standard at all and wouldn't know correct type, regardless of which, if it hit them over the head.

At least that's my observations in seeing what's being sold as "English" Orpingtons in all these groups and even at swaps and sales, these days. Inevitably someone will point out the superiority of their largely unimpressive and equally non-standard "English" type birds to something they think is an example of "American" type and is, in actuality, just a hatchery bird.

Case in point, from some random FB group:View attachment 3381374

On the other hand, this is a winning pullet at an APA show, so I guess this IS "American Type" now.

View attachment 3381376

Anyway, I guess my point is just to say that the "English" vs "American" labels mean very little here unless it is specifically accompanied by "Standardbred" these days.

Yeah, most so-called “English Orpingtons” aren’t bred to the English Standard. And hatchery Orpingtons aren’t American, unless the so called “English” are American by merits of being born in America.

Judges at these shows can only pick the one Orp that is best example at that given show. At the bigger shows you get to see a better example of what is "APA" type. Smaller shows you may not get the better APA type Orp breeders to attend. People who sell like to say "Import" or "English" to boost sales. It is a sales gimmick. This IS the best APA Orpington within the past 50, that is not me saying this that is Alan, who in my judgement is a better judge than many who now judge shows for Orpingtons. IF you join a club you still get the same kind of people, who wanna say "English" and how our SOP needs to be more like the Euro type. My best example here is the closest to the best in APA type that I will ever see. I seen this bird on several occasions in person and this is the BEST. She won Grand Champion at APA shows many times.

X2
The Orpington Haiku Heritage Farm posted isn’t really representative of the American SOP. Some of the birds I posted pictures of were winning birds at a United Orpington Club meet. Judges can only pick from what they get.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

As David Pownall would say that my birds are "working birds", they are not meant to be shown, but when I do I show 100% solid Buff birds. I have a solid dozen whites I can show, but only a couple of Buffs. My Buffs now are used for back up White blood and that occasional Buff.

Fair enough

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

The Orpington Haiku Heritage Farm posted isn’t really representative of the American SOP. Some of the birds I posted pictures of were winning birds at a United Orpington Club meet. Judges can only pick from what they get.

I'm curious--As a judge who only has this photo to go by, how do you feel this pullet appears to deviate from APA type? I compared her photo to the last one Fran posted as their gold standard hen and the 2 seem rather comparable, actually. She doesn't have the profuse skirt that completely hides the legs like UK birds seem to have these days, at least.

Personally I don't care much for an Orpington that, on first glance, is barely distinguishable from a large fowl Cochin, but to each their own. I guess in my mind this is the main difference outlined in the standards, but there are some other things such as preferred wing size, neck angle, etc, as well of course. I would love a judge's analysis of the two females side by side against the APA standard, though.

 

[Amer]

I'm curious--As a judge who only has this photo to go by, how do you feel this pullet appears to deviate from APA type? I compared her photo to the last one Fran posted as their gold standard hen and the 2 seem rather comparable, actually. She doesn't have the profuse skirt that completely hides the legs like UK birds seem to have these days, at least.

Personally I don't care much for an Orpington that, on first glance, is barely distinguishable from a large fowl Cochin, but to each their own. I guess in my mind this is the main difference outlined in the standards, but there are some other things such as preferred wing size, neck angle, etc, as well of course. I would love a judge's analysis of the two females side by side against the APA standard, though.

I’m not an APA judge, just a fair judge. (Though I hope to judge at APA shows when I am old enough and licensed, so obviously I’m not the most creditable.
I think that your Orpington photo is too round in shape, like a Wyandotte with short legs. Fran’s is a little more rectangular like an Orpington.
I would agree with you that there isn’t much difference in type between APA Orpingtons and many of those advertised as English, but I would say that doesn’t mean we should let the floof get away from our Standard. I don’t know of many folks who actually breed to the English Standard and none who breed for the English shows, which means a lack of visible legs.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

@Fran James could you teach me what you see as the major differences?

 

[Fran James]

@Fran James could you teach me what you see as the major differences?

View attachment 3382528View attachment 3382529

Doug's Granny was longer back, deeper, no fluff on top. Back when the 1st Euro (Belgium) Buffs came in and were getting shown the judges would complain about the fluff on the topline.

 

[duckmeister]

I have one other person ahead of ya. Late MAYish.

I want to get in line please late Mayish would be great. Thank you

 

[Fran James]

I want to get in line please late Mayish would be great. Thank you

I have to hatch out a few this season. I should have what I need by May's end to send out a dozen. Will be using this boy mostly. Will take the few oddball cocks to my non SOP types and a White girl or two. I also need to get a few Buffs by year's end. I should get a White or two from these two Buffs. I can use something like these in White.