White Orpingtons

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

My English Orps are completely different from American Orps. They are larger, rounder, completely different body structure

Do you have photos? Do they look very different from the massive round birds in this thread?

 

[ColtHandorf]

Honestly I'm surprised white isn't a more popular variety. It's really impressive on such a big, round bird!

I love my Whites. They are my second favorite variety. So crisply white and so soft. Their feathers actually feel different than the other solid or patterned varieties.

Are there a lot of people importing Orps still? I figured all we really had here was American birds

Greenfire Farms imported some English birds several years ago. Crazy Ewe Farms, Papa's Poultry, and Carolina Rare Chicks also have imported birds. I don't know of anyone recently importing any, but they aren't as rare as they once were, and provided people aren't outcrossing them to garbage, it shouldn't be necessary.

If they're breeding them here, they're American, though? There's very little difference between a standardbred American orp and a standardbred English orp anymore. For better or worse.

They are English. Most APA breeders will tell you there's no such thing as an American Orpington as all Orpingtons originate from England; therefore, all are English. @Amer I think got pictures of the Black Orpington hen that won in Tulsa. Looking at her, she is practically indistinguishable from an English-type bird. I might be able to find the pictures a friend sent me of a conversation with the breeder, who was very snotty about it.

In all actuality, if I took my English-type birds to an APA-sanctioned show and did not disclose their breeding (in the APA -approved varieties), they could compete and possibly place. Obviously, the non-approved varieties would have to be entered into the AOV class. However, suppose they are entered into a show as English, despite being an APA-approved variety. In that case, they are relegated to the AOV class, and even if they place there, they cannot advance in the show to compete against other birds.

Nope. According to my Orpington mentors the biggest difference is how much skirt they have, but the orps on champion row are virtually indistinguishable from those in the UK these days.

I think a lot of people used it to distinguish the floofy ones from utility-type hatchery Orpingtons, which is what you may be talking about, but it's a pretty meaningless designation when talking about standardbred birds.

According to the UK and APA SOPs, there are differences. Of course, the APA copyrights their SOP so unless you have a copy I can't tell you the exact difference, but perhaps @Amer would be kind enough to point out any differences.

https://www.unitedorpington.com/breed-standard

The UK SOP is available online for the general consumer though.

http://www.theorpingtonclub.org.uk/pages/breed-standards.php

You'll notice the UK accepts more varieties. The eye color is also different from the APA birds, with the UK calling for red eyes in the White, Jubilee, Spangled, and Cuckoo varieties.

You will also note that the erroneously-named "Deleware Orpingtons" resemble the Ermine Opringtons of the UK.

You can see UK Champions here that do look different than the APA variety.

http://www.theorpingtonclub.org.uk/pages/gallery.php

While it may be true that it is hard to distinguish between UK and APA-type-bred birds, there is a difference. Even more so, if you compare the UK-bred birds to the more common American "hatchery quality birds".

The Facebook Group "Working Orpington Breeders: Breeding for Quality not Quantity" might interest you.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/makeorpingtonsgreatagain/

"This group was created by a few gals passionate about Orpingtons. We recognized the turning downfall of Orpingtons in the United States, specifically the English variety, caused by unscrupulous and simply uneducated breeders choosing to focus on profit or quantity rather than quality.
Some people have completely lost the picture of what proper type is, and while there is some room for personal interpretation, our goal is to help members learn and understand the differences between good type and poor type in both APA birds and English birds. We hope to encourage breeders to set goals for their own breeding programs so that they can begin to offer quality stock that meets either the English standard or the APA standard, depending on which type each individual chooses to breed.
We are tired of seeing people get scammed; we are tired of people paying for one thing and hatching or growing out something entirely different. We are tired of people refusing to make any effort to study and understand the UK SOP and even the American SOP. We are tired of people selling terrible quality birds, whether knowingly or unknowingly. We are tired of those breeders being hailed as ‘amazing’ and having ‘excellent quality stock.’
The objectives of this group are:
• To help people break down the standards of both UK and APA varieties so as to better understand them;
• To help people recognize the difference between APA and utility birds;
• To help people be able to identify proper feather color and other physical characteristics specific to each color of all varieties of Orpingtons in all life stages from chicks to juveniles and adults;
• To help people identify faults both in color and type and recognize quality breeders in all sales posts and other photos;
• To be an advocate for UK and APA Orpingtons, to practice proper husbandry and breeding practices;
• To identify culls at hatch, as juveniles, and adults so as to not perpetuate flaws and poor quality.
It’s time for an Orpington revolution. So join us as we work to make Orpingtons great again!"

Any more questions?

 

[Auntiejessi3]

Do you have photos? Do they look very different from the massive round birds in this thread?

The birds in this post are English type, so yes my birds have the same structure/ build. The first photo is Phoebe-a hatchery American type blue orp I used to have, the next photo is an English type blue orp I currently have and her counterparts. There is a huge difference in them

If they're breeding them here, they're American, though?

As far as this goes, my boss breeds french bulldogs, it doesn't make them American or Texan since they're in the United States and Texas

 

[ColtHandorf]

The birds in this post are English type, so yes my birds have the same structure/ build. The first photo is Phoebe-a hatchery American type blue orp I used to have, the next photo is an English type blue orp I currently have and her counterparts. There is a huge difference in them

As far as this goes, my boss breeds french bulldogs, it doesn't make them American or Texan since their in the United States and Texas

My baby girls are so sexy! I just love their round fat butts. So fluffy and gorgeous.

 

[Auntiejessi3]

View attachment 3380711
My baby girls are so sexy! I just love their round fat butts. So fluffy and gorgeous.

Yes they are!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

If it helps, I could post a white hatchery American for comparison. I don't think anyone wants that though

 

[Fran James]

Nope. According to my Orpington mentors the biggest difference is how much skirt they have, but the orps on champion row are virtually indistinguishable from those in the UK these days.

I think a lot of people used it to distinguish the floofy ones from utility-type hatchery Orpingtons, which is what you may be talking about, but it's a pretty meaningless designation when talking about standardbred birds.

Back a dozen years ago, the APA "type" were longer legs, longer backs, lower tail angle and yes had stiffer tail feathers. Yes, back then they were big DEEP birds.

 

[Amer]

The thing is, both are Orpingtons. They aren’t different breeds like French or American bulldogs, they are just bred to different standards. So we can just call them Orpingtons. And all Orpingtons are English, so I guess I think the terminology is a redundancy.
But those hatchery Orpingtons definitely aren’t “American Orpingtons” and it’s a discredit to American breeders to call them such. They are a different breed entirely. Hatchery Orpingtons. I wouldn’t go so far to call them utility Orpingtons, though, because they definitely don’t have the utility qualities that the breed was designed for. William Cook intended to have robust a dual purpose breed, not an egg layer defined by its coloring.
And here are a few of the many Orpingtons I photographed at midwestern shows and fairs last year.

 

[ColtHandorf]

The thing is, both are Orpingtons. They aren’t different breeds like French or American bulldogs, they are just bred to different standards. So we can just call them Orpingtons. And all Orpingtons are English, so I guess I think the terminology is a redundancy.

But birds bred to the UK SOP are called "English" Orps by the people actively working with them, just like APA SOP-bred birds are called "American". You see it with many animals. English Budgies for example versus the American Parakeet. Or the English/Dutch/German Zebra Finch versus the American one.

So calling them English to indicate the SOP they are following isn't incorrect, IMO.

Also, I need some real Bantam Orpingtons. I love them.

 

[Fran James]

But birds bred to the UK SOP are called "English" Orps by the people actively working with them, just like APA SOP-bred birds are called "American". You see it with many animals. English Budgies for example versus the American Parakeet. Or the English/Dutch/German Zebra Finch versus the American one.
View attachment 3381076View attachment 3381077View attachment 3381080View attachment 3381081
So calling them English to indicate the SOP they are following isn't incorrect, IMO.

Also, I need some real Bantam Orpingtons. I love them

APA= American Poultry Association. APA has their Standard of Perfection. How one interprets that "Standard" has nothing to do with where the breed is made and or came from. It is a breed in the Standard, nothing more nothing less. It is up to the breeders to bred to their interpretation. and the judges to pick the best bird that fits that judge's interpretation.