white sumatras from black sumatra

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by josh44, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. josh44

    josh44 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I just got off the phone with a friend of mine he's bringing me some black sumatra large.fowl.
    He said that they produced 8 white sumatra chicks this year & asked me to look into it.
    So going to breed a trio of blacks & hope to hatch some whites from what he's bringing me.
    So does anybody have any idea whats causing white from blacks. These sumatras are pure come from winning exhibition strains from breeders with great reps.

    He said the faces are like a reddish purple/ mulberry & not as black in the face as the blacks, leg color and everything else is the way its suppose to be.

    So is it possible to get whites from blacks ???
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  2. gumbii

    gumbii Chillin' With My Peeps

    Oct 7, 2010
    bell gardens, ca
    sounds like opals... that's what i heard about opal OEGB... there are a couple of people working on breeding them...
     
  3. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Sure, you can easily get whites from black. Let's say a white sumatra is recessive white, over black. Let's say you cross that recessive white with a black sumatra-the chicks from this mating will all be black, but split/het for recessive white. You could in theory keep breeding blacks to blacks for generations, and because the white is recessive, it would seldom if ever show up, until you breed two birds that are each carrying one copy of recessive white-both those carriers will be black, but, when crossed, 25% of the offspring will be pure white.

    The chicken Calculator is your friend....[​IMG]
     
  4. cubakid

    cubakid Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Gallo, Lets say you cross
    Rec. Wht. X Pure Black = F1(Split)
    Then
    Pure Black X F1 = F2(birds of both split and black)
    Then
    F2 X F2= What percent is white?

    Does the percentage of white dwindle as you breed to a pure black each generation?
     
  5. josh44

    josh44 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    cool thanks for the info,
    I have a few another questions, since you make sound so easy :lol lol jk
    Since whites can be made from blacks carring ressive white gene & most breeders do line breed, then why aren't there more white sumatras around ? Is it an undesirable color ?

    Should or Will these whites stay all whites or do they eventually get black through out their bodies as in the slash color variety?
     
  6. gallorojo

    gallorojo Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Cuba kid-Hard to answer that, the f2 gen as you describe it will be 50% split for wht rec, and 50% pure black. Only the split x split will get you any white, so, less than 25%, depends on how many you hatch and who you cross, but, not many!

    Josh, I don't know why you don't see white sumatras more. The color should stay white over time, it's not like splash white. Maybe you would get a stray black feather, or something, but that can happen in any color.
     
  7. rodriguezpoultry

    rodriguezpoultry Langshan Lover

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    I can guesstimate why you don't see them very often, they don't win at shows. They lack the good facial and comb color and are very difficult to breed in order to obtain the dark facial color. That, and they're white. Whites are hard to keep clean. They show dirt, poo, and poor feather quality a bit easier than blacks or even blues.

    I would bet the parents are recessive white as well.
     
  8. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner Chicken Obsessed

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    I'm not a Sumatra expert, but to the best of my knowledge, the only recognized Sumatra color is black. There are some unofficial colors out there, though. But you would show the recognized color, otherwise what standard are you breeding to or how are they judged? Somebody with better knowledge of Sumatras may correct me on that.

    It is not all that unusual for a very good breeder that knows what they are doing to introduce another breed or color to his/her line to get or get rid of a specific trait, then breed for a few generations to get to where they want to be. Some of those recessive genes can be hiding in some prize winning lines.

    Sure sounds like recessive white to me. If it is recessive white and you cross white birds from that line, the white should always be there. Both parents would have to have two copies of recessive white for it to show so any offspring would get two copies of recessive white. What else might leak through, well, ????
     
  9. josh44

    josh44 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Blue & white sumatras are recognized by APA & ABA
     
  10. cubakid

    cubakid Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Whites are not in the standard of 2010
     

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