Why are my roosters feet like this

[EggSighted4Life]

An alternative is to get a Permethrin spray and spray his legs and feet. You'll need to do this again after 7 days as well.

Permethrin is not considered effective against SLM according to my research.

Ivermectin is effective but expensive unless you already have it on hand or able to get a small dose shared from other local livestock keepers.

https://the-chicken-chick.com/scaly-leg-mites-in-chickens/

thank you i’m taking the Vaseline approach for now

It works by suffocating them.

I haven't had SLM.. but my feather legged birds (especially roosters) did get some damage similar to the redness you have going on from feather mites or lice of some sort.. which WAS treated with the permethrin spray mentioned by the other poster.

He's handsome.. maybe a bantam Cochin cross if he's four toed.

 

[Shadrach]

Permethrin is not considered effective against SLM according to my research.

Ivermectin is effective but expensive unless you already have it on hand or able to get a small dose shared from other local livestock keepers.

https://the-chicken-chick.com/scaly-leg-mites-in-chickens/


It works by suffocating them.

I haven't had SLM.. but my feather legged birds (especially roosters) did get some damage similar to the redness you have going on from feather mites or lice of some sort.. which WAS treated with the permethrin spray mentioned by the other poster.

He's handsome.. maybe a bantam Cochin cross if he's four toed.

Hmmm, I'm on my way to the ex battery hens I look after and using a mobile phone to type this which I detest doing. I've recently treated two cases of SLM with permethrin and it worked. More on your research source later.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

More on your research source later.

I usually use merck vet manual for myself.. but sometimes reference a dumbed down source if you will forgive the use of that expression to make communication easier..

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/ectoparasites/mites-of-poultry

The Merck manual does indicate that the SLM can be transmitted by contact so MAYBE they do come to the surface to be effected by the permethrin. But it also states.. to spray premises and treat the bird with ivermectin or sulphur solution, the follow is quoted from the link above..

"For control, affected birds should be culled or isolated, and houses should be cleaned and sprayed frequently, as recommended for the poultry red mite. Individual birds should be treated with oral or topical ivermectin or moxidectin (0.2 mg/kg), 10% sulphur solution, or 0.5% sodium fluoride."

So your effective SLM treatment was with permethrin only or also the use of vaseline?

The previous reasoning for inefficacy being the same reason it was considered ineffective against depluming mites is they may not ever come to the surface.

Permethin applied specifically.. is even effective even against termites. Some areas have seen over use and reduced efficacy like with anything else (including Ivermectin and even spinoasad).. it (permethrin) worked really well at controlling chicken lice/mires for me.. but won't touch flea populations on my dogs (brought by a visitor), neither would Frontline which worked well in my previous locations.. requiring use of more expensive prescription drugs.

While we're on this topic.. I wish to mention that Permethrin is NOT safe for use on cats. I still use it despite having cats.. just making sure it's dried completely before they approach and not on their stuff.

I always appreciate a valid and informational discussion.. I'm here to share and to learn not to be right.. and boy how my understanding (and practice) has changed through out the years.

One final statement.. I don't prefer to use Ivermectin on my birds as it is off label, egg withdrawal times are not well studied, and all the blah blah blah.. where as the permethrin is labeled for use in poultry with NO egg withdrawal time.

Something funny.. a post from you and other on this exact subject ..
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/permethrin-spray-for-scaly-leg-mites.1320760/

Regarding resources.. I also often use the state University stuff noting it doesn't always reflect real life experience.. this one is Iowa's..

https://store.extension.iastate.edu/product/15670.pdf

I value personal experience to! it turns out the authorities and other powers that be don't always give us entirely accurate or valid information, thank you for sharing and questioning!

 

[Shadrach]

I usually use merck vet manual for myself.. but sometimes reference a dumbed down source if you will forgive the use of that expression to make communication easier..

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/ectoparasites/mites-of-poultry

The Merck manual does indicate that the SLM can be transmitted by contact so MAYBE they do come to the surface to be effected by the permethrin. But it also states.. to spray premises and treat the bird with ivermectin or sulphur solution, the follow is quoted from the link above..

"For control, affected birds should be culled or isolated, and houses should be cleaned and sprayed frequently, as recommended for the poultry red mite. Individual birds should be treated with oral or topical ivermectin or moxidectin (0.2 mg/kg), 10% sulphur solution, or 0.5% sodium fluoride."

So your effective SLM treatment was with permethrin only or also the use of vaseline?

The previous reasoning for inefficacy being the same reason it was considered ineffective against depluming mites is they may not ever come to the surface.

Permethin applied specifically.. is even effective even against termites. Some areas have seen over use and reduced efficacy like with anything else (including Ivermectin and even spinoasad).. it (permethrin) worked really well at controlling chicken lice/mires for me.. but won't touch flea populations on my dogs (brought by a visitor), neither would Frontline which worked well in my previous locations.. requiring use of more expensive prescription drugs.

While we're on this topic.. I wish to mention that Permethrin is NOT safe for use on cats. I still use it despite having cats.. just making sure it's dried completely before they approach and not on their stuff.

I always appreciate a valid and informational discussion.. I'm here to share and to learn not to be right.. and boy how my understanding (and practice) has changed through out the years.

One final statement.. I don't prefer to use Ivermectin on my birds as it is off label, egg withdrawal times are not well studied, and all the blah blah blah.. where as the permethrin is labeled for use in poultry with NO egg withdrawal time.

Something funny.. a post from you and other on this exact subject ..
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/permethrin-spray-for-scaly-leg-mites.1320760/

Regarding resources.. I also often use the state University stuff noting it doesn't always reflect real life experience.. this one is Iowa's..

https://store.extension.iastate.edu/product/15670.pdf

I value personal experience to! it turns out the authorities and other powers that be don't always give us entirely accurate or valid information, thank you for sharing and questioning!

This deserves a decent reply. It's 23.11 here and I've just got back from the chickens at the allotment and I'm tired and just want to posts a few pictures on my thread and eat and sleep.
I'll reply properly tomorrow.

 

[Shadrach]

I usually use merck vet manual for myself.. but sometimes reference a dumbed down source if you will forgive the use of that expression to make communication easier..

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/ectoparasites/mites-of-poultry

The Merck manual does indicate that the SLM can be transmitted by contact so MAYBE they do come to the surface to be effected by the permethrin. But it also states.. to spray premises and treat the bird with ivermectin or sulphur solution, the follow is quoted from the link above..

"For control, affected birds should be culled or isolated, and houses should be cleaned and sprayed frequently, as recommended for the poultry red mite. Individual birds should be treated with oral or topical ivermectin or moxidectin (0.2 mg/kg), 10% sulphur solution, or 0.5% sodium fluoride."

So your effective SLM treatment was with permethrin only or also the use of vaseline?

The previous reasoning for inefficacy being the same reason it was considered ineffective against depluming mites is they may not ever come to the surface.

Permethin applied specifically.. is even effective even against termites. Some areas have seen over use and reduced efficacy like with anything else (including Ivermectin and even spinoasad).. it (permethrin) worked really well at controlling chicken lice/mires for me.. but won't touch flea populations on my dogs (brought by a visitor), neither would Frontline which worked well in my previous locations.. requiring use of more expensive prescription drugs.

While we're on this topic.. I wish to mention that Permethrin is NOT safe for use on cats. I still use it despite having cats.. just making sure it's dried completely before they approach and not on their stuff.

I always appreciate a valid and informational discussion.. I'm here to share and to learn not to be right.. and boy how my understanding (and practice) has changed through out the years.

One final statement.. I don't prefer to use Ivermectin on my birds as it is off label, egg withdrawal times are not well studied, and all the blah blah blah.. where as the permethrin is labeled for use in poultry with NO egg withdrawal time.

Something funny.. a post from you and other on this exact subject ..
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/permethrin-spray-for-scaly-leg-mites.1320760/

Regarding resources.. I also often use the state University stuff noting it doesn't always reflect real life experience.. this one is Iowa's..

https://store.extension.iastate.edu/product/15670.pdf

I value personal experience to! it turns out the authorities and other powers that be don't always give us entirely accurate or valid information, thank you for sharing and questioning!

I try to give advice/opinion that is relevant to the problem of the OP. In this case, I asked for a picture of the whole leg. Apparently the leg is feathered.
Unfortunately there are different degrees of feathering. With some breeds you can have enough feathers on legs and feet to make Vaseline an impractical option. Some feathered legs have some scale growth between the feathers (Marans for example) others the feather growth is so dense no scales grow under the feathers.
Vaseline isn't likely to be an effective treatment on a feathered leg.

Permethrine.
The high knock down rate of Permethrine relies of the mite coming into contact with the Permethrine. Permethrin will kill SLM. A further complication is the different strengths and carrier liquids in the various brands.
Permethrine sprayed on a leg which is vertical the majority of the day will drip downwards over the scales and away from the mites. Careful spraying of a foot which is mostly horizontal stands a better chance of being effective.
So in this case (feathered legs) Permethrine would seem a reasonable option.
In the thread I posted on which you've linked to this is the important bit

Will spraying chickens' legs with a permethrin spray kill scaly leg mites?

"No. Or at least not the way most people would apply it."

So how the Permethrine is applied has a marked impact on how effective it will be as does the severity of the infestation. A fine spray directed underneath the scales on a leg where the infestation is not severe is likely to work. On this thread the problem is minor and on the foot which makes the probability of Permethrine working higher.

Vegetable and Mineral oils.
Spray.
Effectiveness depends in part on the viscosity of the oil and it's application. Oils do not have any contact knock down ability. They rely on drowning the mites.
Even low viscosity oils will flow down the leg leaving air pockets under the scales which means the mites can still breath and therefore don't die. A fine spray is unlikely to achieve much more than sticky legs.
This is why a dip is prefered. You can keep the leg submerged in the oil and the mites will drown.

Deisel and Petrol.
Absoluutely horrified to read these products recommended on the Chicken Chicks site. Both are carcenogenic. Both often cause skin rash. Both leave a residual. Go and dip your forearm in a bucket of deisel and don't wash it off.

Rubbing Alcohol/Surgical Spirit
Some contact effectiveness. Antiseptic. Fast evaporation rate. Close to zero residual. Reusable.
My preference for a dip.

Iodine and Petroleum Jelly mix.
My overall prefered treatment. I mix 25% Iodine.
If you get a thick coating on the entire leg (a soft application brush works well such as a shaving brush) it's highly effective.
Petroleum jelly has a very high viscosity and it isn't soluble in water. Correctly applied it wil stay where you put it for long enough to suffocate the mites.
The Iodine acts as an anti fungal agent as well as an antiseptic.

Permethrin Dust.
Not suitable for SLM.

There's more including some pictures which I will post later.
I'm going to put a lot of information on this thread (I hope the OP doesn't object?) and combine the lot as a bookmarked page so I don't have to type it out again!

 

[Shadrach]

Poultry DVM, Merck and others.

I see quite a lot of references and advice taken/copied from such manuals. What gets overllooked is many of these manuals were written with commercial concerns in mind and the advice given may not be suitable for the small stock backyard keeper.
For example, many advise the culling of the infected bird as first option. I can't see telling the average backyard keeper to kill their birds if they've got a case of SLM going down well. While cull can mean removal from the flock for commercial concerns I think it's fair to assume the bird is going to get killed.

Most recommend isolation for just about every problem. This isn't a practical option for many backyard keepers and there is growing evidence that isolating a bird from the group leads to slow healing because the bird is unnecessarily stressed.

Next, much of the medication advised isn't available easily to the backyard keeper and there is the expense to consider.
This isn't so much of a problem for the commercial enterprises. Vet bills, medication etc should be factored into the operational costs. This rarely happens with backyard keepers.

EDIT.
I'm going to have to find some pictures on my various hard drives for the next bit; probably tommorow.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I try to give advice/opinion that is relevant to the problem of the OP.

Did I not also do the same?

I can't see telling the average backyard keeper to kill their birds if they've got a case of SLM going down well

Poultry dvm might as well be a quack show.

Again I didn't recommend culling or reference the source for the average backyard keeper.. but did relay the relative information.

much of the medication advised isn't available easily to the backyard keeper and there is the expense to consider.

In the US. I bought the Ivermectin at TSC over the counter.

Vet bills, medication etc should be factored into the operational costs. This rarely happens with backyard keepers.

Who's fault is that? That's very basic, we must all consider it.

I also suggested ways of contacting other local animal keepers to get enough dose. Having previously kept goats, and still mini pigs and other locals having sheep, lamas, cows and more.. Ivermectin is a common place item. But also why I always try to identify the OP's location first.

Most recommend isolation for just about every problem.

I almost always recommend against isolation.

Anyways put myself or any resource I've used on trial and there will be holes.. because there is NO perfect solution for everyone across the board.. Hence here to share our experiences or so I thought.

My take away... permethrin might be effective regarding slm if applied correctly. Ivermectin, probably same story.. Use what's available to you and within your resources and appears to be effective for your current contention.

Best wishes fellow keeper's!

 

[Shadrach]

Debriding.

I've read a number of posts where Scaly Leg Mite was the issue and the OP was recommended to debride the legs with a brush prior to any treatment for the mites.
Should you do it?
It helps if one knows a little about how leg scales are fixed and how they are effected by SLM.
SLM eats the keratine secreted at the base of the scales. They live in the skin below the scales. As they work their way under the scales keratine and mite poop builds up behind them and this starts to push the scales away from the scale laying underneath. This raises the scales relative to their normal position.

Leg scales can be viewed a bit like a leaf with a wide stem attached to a branch with a wide stem acting as a type of hinge that permits some movement but if bent too far will break.
A chicken with SLM already has excess pressure being placed on the "hinge" due to the build up of keratine and mite poop. These "hinges" are not meant to have a wide movement range; just enough to allow the scales to adjust to leg movement.

Unless one is extremely careful any brushing trying to get underneath the scales, or any brushing at all is likely to push the keratine and poop further under the scale and create more pressure on the hinge which is already weakened by the SLM.

This is Matilda. I mentioned to Matilda's owner that a few of the chickens had SLM problems and that I would deal with them shortly. Matilda's owner went on the the internet, read some stuff on SLM and decided they would clean the scales with a brush using water to wash away the "dirt" as they scrubed.
I didn't have the foresight to get a picture of the damage before I made attempts to clean the mess up. Two large sections of scales had been knocked off during the brushing leaving two open wounds. A number of other scales had become partially detached. The owner just put Matilda back with the rest and left it to me to find the problem and sort out the damage.

This isn't the first time I've dealt with scale and leg damage from people who have gone on the internet and read they should debride the chickens legs before treating with any remedies.

I expect most people will choose a toothbrush and scrub as they might their teeth. Tooth brush bristles are too hard and scales are not as well achored as teeth.

If your chosen treatment is Petroleum Jelly of any description there is absolutely no point in trying to debride the chickens legs. The Petroleum Jelly works by suffocating the mites and works whether the legs are clean or not provided one gets full coverage.

If you're using Ivermectin there is absolutely no point in trying to debride the chickens legs. Ivermectin goes into the chickens blood and is carried to the mites in the blood that reaches the skin on the chickens leg. Ivermectin doesn't care how dirty the leg is.

If you are going to dip the chickens leg in oil or spirit you are trying to drown the mites. It doesn't matter if the legs are dirty. What matters is how long one keeps the legs submerged in the liquid. No I don't know how long a SLM can hold it's breath for.

If you are going to try a fine spray of say Permethrin then there is a case for the minimum amount of detritus and some very gentle cleaning of the legs may help the chemical make contact with the mites. However, the Permethrin treatments I've used all stay active for many hours once in contact with feathers, scales or flesh. Permethrine sprayed on clothes for example as an insect repellant is effective for a few days depending on the carrier and the chemicl strength.

Bottom line; don't debride a chickens legs.
If it is absolutely necessary than use a soft brush with some plain soap. Don't use detergent.

 

[Shadrach]

Is it Scaly Leg mite?
There are so science says probably hundereds of different types of mites, few of which have been catalogued.

This isn't a great picture I'll admit. What you can't see in the picture are the tiny scabs. I think if one was to post this on an internet forum many replies would suggest the hen has SLM.
This isn't SLM. This is a rash and scale damage caused by another mite called Straw Itch Mite and the treament for straw itch mite is not the same as SLM because Straw Itch Mite feed on the bird but live in the bedding.

Thiis chap on the other hand does have SLM. It's better than it was.

 

[Shadrach]

How do I know if the treatment I've chosen has been effective?

This is one of the more difficult aspects to SLM.
The mites lay eggs and these eggs hatch between 7 and 9 days later. Of course the newly hatched mites also lay eggs and the cycle goes on.
The next problem is the scales do not return to their normal position even if the mites are dead. The chicken has to shed the old scales and grow in new ones. Only the new scales will look normal assuming the mite problem has been solved.
The key to SLM eradication is regular treatment. With one rooster (I'll find his pictures eventually) it took months to rid him of SLM.
Once you've found a chicken with SLM then it's a good idea to treat with Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) as a regular part of your health care routine.
Repeated treaments with Ivermectin are not recommended.