Why are some LF breeds from hatcheries smaller than 'Standard'?

[rodriguezpoultry]

Production Leghorns and Standard-bred Leghorns vary greatly. The standard-bred Leghorn is generally larger as well as longer in body. The production-bred Leghorn has a shorter body and is slightly smaller. The production-bred Leghorn will lay better.

I believe the real issue, is that hatcheries are choosing breeders, either not realizing what they are doing or not caring. The birds that lay the fastest are the ones that are retained. These birds are bred to produce more birds in order to make more money. The birds that are smaller generally mature faster.

For example, a production-bred Leghorn is commonly known for laying at 4 months, whereas a standard-bred Leghorn can begin to lay as late as 7 or 8 months. Cochins are the same, production-bred Cochins begin laying sooner than their standard-bred counter parts and are smaller than the standard-bred Cochins. They will, again, lay more eggs than a standard-bred bird.

 

[gallorojo]

I want to try and restate my previous remarks. I do think there is a selection process at a hatchery, but, that is does not account for size. My thought is that if you don't select for an unusual trait, like very large size, it gets lost as the species reverts in that one way closer to wild type.

I also will agree with rodriguezpoultry about smaller size=better layer. Sure, it does not HAVE to be that way, you could have a big chicken lay tons of eggs, BUT, it is not easy to do. My feeling is that when you select for increased rate of lay, earlier maturity, etc, you are automatically getting smaller size as a sort of package deal. YES, you can, with great effort, have big size and lots of eggs, but, the hatcheries are not putting forth this effort.

I agree with Saladin 100% on regaining lost size-it's VERY HARD to do!!! I expect it to take me 10 years minimum to get my birds consistently up to standard size, maybe longer.

Another point to consider-I think hatcheries typically breed pullets, and discard breeders after 1-2 seasons. In my opinion, this is a practice that in and of itself leads to size reductions inherently, if carried out for many generations. Not to mention reduction in longevity, vigor, etc.

Finally, I have standard bred quality leghorns. The pullets are as big as 3 year old production type barred rocks!!! Amazing to realize how small the hatchery birds are!!!

 

[sjarvis00]

Quote:
Yo might be able to get a large bird to lay very well however your feed to egg conversion would still be well out of proportion to the smaller bird with a lower metabolic feed requirement.
hatcheries do have to practice some selection otherwise they all be partridge colored and somewhat the same size, birds will revert to a natural state given time and opportunity. What you must consider is the hatchery is providing its customers with what they generally want, a good laying bird. If a person wanted a show bird they would buy from a reputable breeder as they would know they can't really expect that from teh average hatchery.

 

[gallorojo]

No arguments from me.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Nothing quite like a good Leghorn. That Leghorn sweep makes me drool every time.

 

[Cowgirl71]

Hatcheries breed their birds for high egg production. More eggs=more chicks that they can sell. A hen that lays 6 eggs a week is going to be more feed efficient than the hen that only lays 3 eggs a week. The sooner the bird can start laying, the more eggs it can lay in a shorter period of time. A smaller bird is going to be much more feed efficient in terms of eggs than a larger bird. A smaller bird will reach POL sooner than a larger bird. And as far as selecting roosters for breeding, if I were in their shoes, I would choose some of the smaller roosters to keep. They'll be able to fertilize the eggs just as well (or better) than a larger rooster, and they'll eat that much less feed during their lifetimes. And they'll sire daughters that will be on average smaller in size. And then these daughters will become great laying hens because of the aforementioned reasons. It completes the circle.

 

[jmc]

Quote:
Actually this is not truley correct. Smaller does not mean better egg layer. Most egg laying types are smaller due to they are not used for anything else. But a duel purpose is and can be just as good a egg layer if selected for it. But that is not what this thread is about. What happens in a hatchery is those that lay are kept and those that do not are culled. Now some hatcheries do buy from breeders and you can tell it when you get a large order of just one breed. Hatcheries need space for they have lots of chickens. Production is up most in selction everything else comes after. If your large breeds are not selected for other than laying they will down size. But luckily it is not hard to breed back up. Most only down size 2 to 3 lbs.

I'm sorry, can you explain how it is not inversely correlated? Smaller birds, such as Leghorns lay more eggs. Australorps, the production bred ones which are smaller than their standard-bred counter parts also lay more. Both are relatively small breeds in the big "scheme" of all breeds. Whereas, a Cornish, will lay few eggs.

yes, i have always heard that the smaller birds tend to be better layers, the larger, conversely, not as good, as more energy goes into body mass--and maintaining that body mass-- than into egg production

 

[jmc]

Quote:
Actually this is not truley correct. Smaller does not mean better egg layer. Most egg laying types are smaller due to they are not used for anything else. But a duel purpose is and can be just as good a egg layer if selected for it. But that is not what this thread is about. What happens in a hatchery is those that lay are kept and those that do not are culled. Now some hatcheries do buy from breeders and you can tell it when you get a large order of just one breed. Hatcheries need space for they have lots of chickens. Production is up most in selction everything else comes after. If your large breeds are not selected for other than laying they will down size. But luckily it is not hard to breed back up. Most only down size 2 to 3 lbs.

Actually, breeding 'back up' can be a monumental challenge.

I remember Bob Blosl saying that if he were to get RIR from a hatchery, he would need about 20 years to get back to standard. At least I think it was Bob.

 

[jmc]

You have all made some nicely stated posts. thanks again.

 

[danhonour]

I have to agree with most everything said here.The early maturing bird stops growing frame and muscle as soon as she starts laying,for the food goes toward egg production rather than growing.If the pullet matures very early she is robbing herslf of much growth and size.Minorcas for instance are slower to mature but reach a long ,tall and big framed size.They look big and strong and of proper type.The early maturing birds,lack size,tallness,length and frame and the type does not even look like a Minorca.The hatchery stock looks more like a small Campine,they are too small for Leghorns and lack the back sweep concave back of Leghorns.