Why Do People Buy Live Chicks From Breeders and Farm Stores‭?

[Shadrach]

I agree that the egg and meat industry is horrifying. The planet’s population (approaching 8 billion) doesn’t allow every family to live in a rural area and be self-sustaining. That’s where industry comes in to meet the demand. Perhaps, we could eliminate the demand by eliminating a few billion humans so the animals of the world could live in peace! Well unfortunately, that’s not likely. So what’s a realistic solutionView attachment 1570980

Improvement in humane industry and hatchery practices take time:
https://www.collective-evolution.co...-in-us-will-stop-culling-male-chicks-by-2020/
and may not ever reach an acceptable standard.

Most people of the world support these industries by buying the products they offer, because we all need groceries. So how can individuals at least lighten the load and achieve a more sustainable lifestyle?

I have extensively researched homesteading and "green" living. Even though my family is currently bound to the suburbs, we’re saving and making plans to acquire some acreage in the future. But in the meantime, we’d still like to incorporate many earth friendly practices in our daily lives. Gardening, recycling and raising chickens are but a few practical and feasible options in my neighborhood.

I buy chicks from the feed store, because the likelihood (not absolute fact) that they are disease-free and will have a long productive life for my needs is much higher than that of rescuing ex battery hens or other unwanted chickens. I applaud and respect other people who have the means do so! I also do not have the space for an effective quarantine to add new adult flock members. I know my limitations.

Yes, the chicks I purchase have suffered a terrible day or two. But their lives (like many other chicks) are not destined for the dreadful conditions of egg/broiler production farms. Would you rather that these “backyard” hatcheries cease operation in preference of expanding the need for commercial egg and meat production? In other words… eliminate the prospect of backyard poultry in exchange for exclusively store-bought products?
It seems a matter of choosing a lesser evil.

I’ve been meaning to reply to your post for some days. My apologies for such a late reply.

There is a vast amount of material available on tackling the meat and egg industry and how to feed an ever expanding population, I can’t add anything that hasn’t already been covered.
Become a vegan; not for me but in general the vegan argument seems sound enough to me.
Become a vegetarian, not for me either, but as above.
Eat less meat and dairy produce, this is what I do.
Don’t use the fast food outlets and learn to cook.
The economics of meat production are ridiculous.

Hatcheries, they’re a convenience, a large incubating concern and completely unnecessary.
They get their eggs from farms and breeders. There may be a few that keep their own breeding chickens but they are a small minority.
They don’t raise chickens. Some I believe will supply pullets and cockerels but what happens to those they can’t sell and what kind of conditions are they kept in.

It’s entirely possible to buy chicks from the farms and breeders that supply the hatcheries and do away with at least some of the horrors that these chicks undergo because we, humans want convenience.
I can’t see any reason why people who want chicks can’t wait the four to six weeks it takes for a hen to rear her chicks, or purchase eggs.
There are lots of advantages to such a system.

A hatchery bought chick.
The eggs arrive at the hatchery and get incubated.
The chicks hatches sometime along with hundreds of others in a machine.
The video posted earlier shows some of the details. The full video is a lot more distressing.
I can’t find out how long the chicks are kept alive for to fulfill orders; lets say 24 hours. The hatcheries aren’t in the business of feeding chicks.
Once the chicks come of the conveyors they get packed into boxes for shipment.
Depending on the distance and other factors its possible for a chick to be in these boxes for another 72 hours according to the information I’ve found on the net.
They arrive at the new owners, dehydrated, hungry and confused if they survive the delivery method and then get put into another much larger box.
They get fed and watered and heat is provided by various means and here they stay until fully feathered; maybe a month, maybe much longer if their new owner had reservations about introducing new chicks to an existing flock.
This is what these vets have to say about the consequences of doing this.

http://www.upc-online.org/transport/71408shippingbirds.html

The above suggests that by the time the chicks you’ve ordered arrive they are already suffering from dehydration and lack of proper nutrition and may already be diseased. It would be interesting to study such chicks and compare their long term health and behavior with more natural alternatives.
.
Watching mums rear their chicks here I’ve been amazed at what mum teaches them and how quickly the chicks learn. Some things are instinctive in chicks, but other things chicks learn from their mum and the first few days seem to be when the chick learns most quickly.
All the mother hens here integrate their chicks into their group at some stage. There are lots of posts dealing with this problem that could be avoided in many cases if mum did the job. It seems to me there are so many advantages in having mum do the chick rearing that any extra effort involved in getting chicks that have been reared by a hen rather than having spent those vital first few days jammed in a cardboard box are worth it.
You wouldn’t need chick houses and the other accessories needed to keep chicks until they are old enough to join the flock.

Yes, the chicks I purchase have suffered a terrible day or two. But their lives (like many other chicks) are not destined for the dreadful conditions of egg/broiler production farms. Would you rather that these “backyard” hatcheries cease operation in preference of expanding the need for commercial egg and meat production? In other words… eliminate the prospect of backyard poultry in exchange for exclusively store-bought products?
It seems a matter of choosing a lesser evil.

You’ve presented an either/or argument here and assumed that the elimination of what you describe as backyard hatcheries will necessarily increase the commercial sector. I don’t accept this.

If, people could be persuaded not to use the hatcheries and use breeders instead the regulation of breeders might get more stringent and that would also be a good thing in my opinion. People who wanted to keep a backyard flock would still be able to purchase hen reared chickens, or eggs.
I'll reply to your next post soon.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Become a vegan; not for me but in general the vegan argument seems sound enough to me.
Become a vegetarian, not for me either, but as above.
Eat less meat and dairy produce, this is what I do.

Lol.
Vegan.... I'm so against this nonsense that I don't even know exactly what a vegan is.
Vegetarian....more nonsense. Not only am I not becoming one I don't even eat vegetables myself.
I get my vegetables from the vegetarian animals I eat.
Eat less meat and dairy products.... Not happening. My diet is about 80% meat, 10% dairy and 10% other.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Lol.
Vegan.... I'm so against this nonsense that I don't even know exactly what a vegan is.
Vegetarian....more nonsense. Not only am I not becoming one I don't even eat vegetables myself.
I get my vegetables from the vegetarian animals I eat.
Eat less meat and dairy products.... Not happening. My diet is about 80% meat, 10% dairy and 10% other.

Haha.

 

[Chickassan]

I bet you could build a house with your poop. I'm not an ethical vegetarian, i'm one born from necessity. One day your bowels may turn against you and never return to your side.

Lol.
Vegan.... I'm so against this nonsense that I don't even know exactly what a vegan is.
Vegetarian....more nonsense. Not only am I not becoming one I don't even eat vegetables myself.
I get my vegetables from the vegetarian animals I eat.
Eat less meat and dairy products.... Not happening. My diet is about 80% meat, 10% dairy and 10% other.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I bet you could build a house with your poop. I'm not an ethical vegetarian, i'm one born from necessity. One day your bowels may turn against you and never return to your side.

Lol. I've heard of a brick sh!t house but I could do the opposite... A sh!t brick house?

IDK I'm the healthiest person I know. Went to the hospital back in 97 from a motorcycle accident and once since then for a kidney stone but besides those two trips I can't even remember a time I've been to a hospital or a doctor.
So far so good.

 

[feathermaid]

All good points earlier Shadrach, none of which are original or aren't being practiced by many people already. Like I said, change takes time and all people are different. You can't make the entire world change, you must be the change you want to see in the world. Most of what I see from you is "I believe what I believe and everyone else is wrong."

Unless you change your mind:

If, people could be persuaded not to use the hatcheries and use breeders instead the regulation of breeders might get more stringent and that would also be a good thing in my opinion. People who wanted to keep a backyard flock would still be able to purchase hen reared chickens, or eggs.

A direct contradiction to what you said many times before... among others.

I'll reply to your next post soon.

That's ok, I never needed or expected a reply, I was just stating a point of view.

*unwatches thread*

 

[Chickassan]

Lol I just don't want you to blow up, you've got some good info a lot of times.

Lol. I've heard of a brick sh!t house but I could do the opposite... A sh!t brick house?

IDK I'm the healthiest person I know. Went to the hospital back in 97 from a motorcycle accident and once since then for a kidney stone but besides those two trips I can't even remember a time I've been to a hospital or a doctor.
So far so good.

 

[Shadrach]

All good points earlier Shadrach, none of which are original or aren't being practiced by many people already. Like I said, change takes time and all people are different. You can't make the entire world change, you must be the change you want to see in the worl

All good points earlier Shadrach, none of which are original or aren't being practiced by many people already. Like I said, change takes time and all people are different. You can't make the entire world change, you must be the change you want to see in the world. Most of what I see from you is "I believe what I believe and everyone else is wrong."

Unless you change your mind:
A direct contradiction to what you said many times before... among others.

That's ok, I never needed or expected a reply, I was just stating a point of view.
View attachment 1574779
*unwatches thread*

Just a final point. If you like James Herriot you might like Gerald Durrell.
I'm done here.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Hatcheries, they’re a convenience, a large incubating concern and completely unnecessary.

Some interesting comments in this post. Since it is so long I'll just copy this much to show which post I'm commenting on. Besides it is an interesting comment.

In the States the hatcheries we on this forum usually buy our chicks from might hatch as many as 80,000 to 100,000 chicks a week in season, demand is that great. Hatcheries like Cackle, Meyer, Ideal, McMurray and others. The season is not year around buyt maybe 8 months. How many broody hens would it take to hatch this many chicks a week. As often as hens go broody how many chickens would it take to assure enough broody hens to hatch this many chicks?

In the States, the hatcheries that supply the commercial chicken industry, the hybrid layers and especially the meat birds, often hatch about 1,000,000 chicks a week every week of the year. The individual incubators often hold 60,000 eggs though some may hold as many as 120,000 each each. A little more than hundreds. I don't know how many hatcheries this size there are scattered around the country but there are different companies supplying eggs and meat and they all have a few their own hatcheries. Again, how many broodies would it take to hatch this number of chicks and how big would your overall flock be to assure that many broodies?

The hatcheries we buy from often have some of their own flocks though some also although some also contract out for fertile eggs to hatch. They tend to have different business models but this kind of stuff is fairly normal.

The commercial hatcheries on the other hand have a highly secret genetic make-up for their chickens. They are not going to share that with competitors. Again they can have different business models. Sometimes they keep the flocks that lay the eggs to hatch themselves but it's not that unusual for them to contract out the supply of those eggs, but they tightly control the genetics of the breeding flocks.

Before an egg hatches the chick absorbs the yolk. It can live off of that yolk for 72 hours or more before it needs to eat or drink. Nature set that up so the broody hen can wait on the latest eggs to hatch before the first to hatch need to eat and drink. I've had some hatches over within 24 hours of the first to hatch but some others under broodies and in the incubator have takes well into the third day before the last hatched. Those eggs were set at the same time so it was not a staggered hatch. That way the chicks can be shipped without undue stress in the mail as long as delivery is on time.

 

[Shadrach]

Some interesting comments in this post. Since it is so long I'll just copy this much to show which post I'm commenting on. Besides it is an interesting comment.

In the States the hatcheries we on this forum usually buy our chicks from might hatch as many as 80,000 to 100,000 chicks a week in season, demand is that great. Hatcheries like Cackle, Meyer, Ideal, McMurray and others. The season is not year around buyt maybe 8 months. How many broody hens would it take to hatch this many chicks a week. As often as hens go broody how many chickens would it take to assure enough broody hens to hatch this many chicks?

In the States, the hatcheries that supply the commercial chicken industry, the hybrid layers and especially the meat birds, often hatch about 1,000,000 chicks a week every week of the year. The individual incubators often hold 60,000 eggs though some may hold as many as 120,000 each each. A little more than hundreds. I don't know how many hatcheries this size there are scattered around the country but there are different companies supplying eggs and meat and they all have a few their own hatcheries. Again, how many broodies would it take to hatch this number of chicks and how big would your overall flock be to assure that many broodies?

The hatcheries we buy from often have some of their own flocks though some also although some also contract out for fertile eggs to hatch. They tend to have different business models but this kind of stuff is fairly normal.

The commercial hatcheries on the other hand have a highly secret genetic make-up for their chickens. They are not going to share that with competitors. Again they can have different business models. Sometimes they keep the flocks that lay the eggs to hatch themselves but it's not that unusual for them to contract out the supply of those eggs, but they tightly control the genetics of the breeding flocks.

Before an egg hatches the chick absorbs the yolk. It can live off of that yolk for 72 hours or more before it needs to eat or drink. Nature set that up so the broody hen can wait on the latest eggs to hatch before the first to hatch need to eat and drink. I've had some hatches over within 24 hours of the first to hatch but some others under broodies and in the incubator have takes well into the third day before the last hatched. Those eggs were set at the same time so it was not a staggered hatch. That way the chicks can be shipped without undue stress in the mail as long as delivery is on time.

Did you read the link in my post?