Why do people choose to be vegans?

[chickengeorgeto]

The problem is that vitamin A is mostly associated with the consumption of meat, especially liver and organ meats. While some colorful vegies have loads of Beta Carotene it is all in a form that is almost impossible for a healthy human to digest, use, or absorb.

Oh come on, in 1916 when the first American Doughboys started arriving in France the French people were astonished at how tall Americans were. It was nothing but the better American animal protein diet of a 100 years ago compared to the poorer diet of their European cousins.

 

[Bullitt]

3) You don't need to understand people who live their lives differently from yours, as long as they live theirs and let you live yours.

Trying to understand the world is part of what makes us human. People have a desire to know.

 

[Bullitt]

The problem is that vitamin A is mostly associated with the consumption of meat, especially liver and organ meats. While some colorful vegies have loads of Beta Carotene it is all in a form that is almost impossible for a healthy human to digest, use, or absorb.

Oh come on, in 1916 when the first American Doughboys started arriving in France the French people were astonished at how tall Americans were. It was nothing but the better American animal protein diet of a 100 years ago compared to the poorer diet of their European cousins.

Exactly.

There is a saying -- "big farm boy". I wonder what made those farm boys big? Milk, eggs, meat, grains, fruits, and vegetables. They had a well-rounded diet that included animal products.

 

[Bullitt]

The "more meat = greater height" works only if they were getting insufficient nutrients prior to "more meat". What also happened after WWII in Japan (after reconstruction) was an increase in the average wealth of the people. And, on average, most people in industrial nations have been getting a little taller every generation as health standards improved, anyway -- childhood illnesses can stunt growth as well. It's hard to pinpoint one cause, especially in a correlation study (which only hints at a possible cause, requiring further investigation). The thing is, it's easy to get your minimum protein and some other nutrients if you have some meat (or fish) in your diet. If you remove that, you have to be a little more conscious of what you're eating in the course of the day. If you're going vegetarian or vegan, it's not just about what you subtract -- to be healthy, it's very important what you add.

But keep in mind, people who eat a lazy diet with meat are also often deficient in other nutrients which are easily found in lots of things vegetarians and vegans already add into their diets. Just for fun one day, you should write down everything you eat, and then the next day, look up the nutrient levels of everything and try to figure out if you got enough vitamins and minerals. Then, next time you stop at 7-11 for a soda, think about getting a V8 strawberry-banana, or some other veggie/fruit juice, instead. Or if you want a sandwich from a deli, see if they can put mesclun greens and/or spinach on it instead of iceberg lettuce, and see the nutrient difference with those choices. Meat-eating people questioning vegetarians or vegans are so quick to point to the "protein problem" while unaware that they, themselves, are likely low in vitamin A, E, etc.

Heck with that. Dr Pepper is the drink of Texas.

Seriously, are you really going to argue that the Japanese people just eating fish, rice, and vegetables would be as tall today?

No, no, and, oh yeah, no.

 

[Rosa moschata]

The problem is that vitamin A is mostly associated with the consumption of meat, especially liver and organ meats. While some colorful vegies have loads of Beta Carotene it is all in a form that is almost impossible for a healthy human to digest, use, or absorb.

Oh come on, in 1916 when the first American Doughboys started arriving in France the French people were astonished at how tall Americans were. It was nothing but the better American animal protein diet of a 100 years ago compared to the poorer diet of their European cousins.

You are completely incorrect -- beta carotene is not at all "almost impossible for a healthy human to digest, use or absorb." I don't even know where you could have gotten that information, being as any and all nutrition information I've ever encountered has extolled the virtues of naturally-derived vitamin-A from beta-carotene and other carotenoids, being as it does not induce ill effects from over-consumption, unlike the palmitate versions found in liver and organ meats which can cause illness if too much is eaten at a time.

1916, interestingly, was before the modern industrial agriculture model of food production. Americans then did not eat nearly as much meat as they do today. The "astonishment" over the size of the first American troops in France during WWI had more to do with where those American boys grew up -- in the "heartland", working on farms, already tall and lean. The first wave sent was made up of the "cream of the crop" of American soldiers. Later deployments of "city boy" Americans were almost a disappointment to the French, who had exaggerated their legends of "giant Americans" from the first wave. Yet despite differences in size, the French soldiers were (on average) more powerfully built, and even the Americans remarked upon their strength.z

 

[Desert]

I didn't read through all of the replies and thought I would just respond to your original concern about Vegans.

Regarding their beliefs or whatever, I used to be Vegan, for almost a decade. I still would be if I didn't eat eggs from my chickens.

The main thing about being Vegan is that everything that comes from animals commercially is absolutely disgusting, not to mention poorly produced, and loaded with more bad than good.

We decided to make the switch to plain Vegetarianism after we realized how much we wanted chickens and the ability to have eggs. We're so happy we did this!

We won't drink milk from a cow because it's just nasty to us, but that doesn't mean we don't agree with it. We plan on getting goats and I, myself, will probably try the milk, although my wife doesn't have any interest in it.
For us, the whole "drink milk from another species" is one aspect, but lactose intolerance is the other.

And meat, never. We don't do that, but it's not something we avoid just to anger other people.

The main issue we've ever had being Vegan, vegetarian, or whatever, is that other people seem to get SO offended just hearing it mentioned, even if they're the ones who ask. We have to spend so much time acting like we're sorry for not wanting to eat meat, even though we're actually quite proud that we don't eat it.

Sometimes, I think people feel like we think we're better than them even though we don't. It all comes down to whether people are accepting or not.

One thing I will say is that we have never ever ever talked down to anyone for eating meat, drinking milk, or anything animal-related, but I've been made fun of many times by people simply for admitting that I don't eat meat when they would ask me, so we have learned to keep quiet about it unless we are truly around people that can accept us for what we are (or aren't, in their opinion sometimes).

Raising chickens converted us to start using eggs. Raising goats will probably convert us to use their milk.
We will never buy that stuff commercially again and in the long run we might be better off because of that.

Now that I've had a moment to look through the comments people are leaving, it seems the topic has been hijacked and turned into a discussion about high protein "paleo" diets or some such nonsense. I'm sorry to see that. It never seems to fail that people go over the top trying to insult those who are different.

I hope my comment helps, coming from a former Vegan and current vegetarian.

 

[Bullitt]

1916, interestingly, was before the modern industrial agriculture model of food production. Americans then did not eat nearly as much meat as they do today. The "astonishment" over the size of the first American troops in France during WWI had more to do with where those American boys grew up -- in the "heartland", working on farms, already tall and lean. The first wave sent was made up of the "cream of the crop" of American soldiers. Later deployments of "city boy" Americans were almost a disappointment to the French, who had exaggerated their legends of "giant Americans" from the first wave. Yet despite differences in size, the French soldiers were (on average) more powerfully built, and even the Americans remarked upon their strength.z

Yeah, farm boys are bigger. Why? A better diet that included animal products on a regular basis.

Never heard that about French men being "more powerfully built". If so, why was that the case? Was it red wine and cheese?

 

[Rosa moschata]

Heck with that. Dr Pepper is the drink of Texas.

Seriously, are you really going to argue that the Japanese people just eating fish, rice, and vegetables would be as tall today?

No, no, and, oh yeah, no.

You're devolving into black/white thinking, ignoring the shades of gray in between. Japanese rely more heavily upon seafood because they are an island nation, and that is an abundant resource. They also do include meat, and have for a long time. But poor people will generally be eating less-well than non-poor people, and when average wealth increases, there are fewer poor people struggling on poor diets. There is more involved than one simple ingredient.

 

[Rosa moschata]

Exactly.

There is a saying -- "big farm boy". I wonder what made those farm boys big? Milk, eggs, meat, grains, fruits, and vegetables. They had a well-rounded diet that included animal products.

Again, black/white thinking. You're making a comparison as though it was about meat-eaters versus vegans, and this is incorrect. The amount of meat in the diet of those farmboys was less than in typical American fare today -- and the French were ALSO eating meat. I already responded further about how the first wave of American soldiers were the biggest and best we had -- from a big country, founded by people from beyond just France. And while the French remarked at the size of the Americans, it was about their height. The Americans, themselves, were amazed at how strong the shorter but stocky French soldiers were -- and those French soldiers were also farmboys. So if the "farmboy" argument is for why the Americans were so tall, why didn't it apply to the French? Couldn't possibly be due to genetics, or perhaps that we sent them our tallest in the first wave, to be met up with their average guys?

 

[Bullitt]

I didn't read through all of the replies and thought I would just respond to your original concern about Vegans.

Regarding their beliefs or whatever, I used to be Vegan, for almost a decade. I still would be if I didn't eat eggs from my chickens.

The main thing about being Vegan is that everything that comes from animals commercially is absolutely disgusting, not to mention poorly produced, and loaded with more bad than good.

We decided to make the switch to plain Vegetarianism after we realized how much we wanted chickens and the ability to have eggs. We're so happy we did this!

We won't drink milk from a cow because it's just nasty to us, but that doesn't mean we don't agree with it. We plan on getting goats and I, myself, will probably try the milk, although my wife doesn't have any interest in it.
For us, the whole "drink milk from another species" is one aspect, but lactose intolerance is the other.

And meat, never. We don't do that, but it's not something we avoid just to anger other people.

The main issue we've ever had being Vegan, vegetarian, or whatever, is that other people seem to get SO offended just hearing it mentioned, even if they're the ones who ask. We have to spend so much time acting like we're sorry for not wanting to eat meat, even though we're actually quite proud that we don't eat it.

Sometimes, I think people feel like we think we're better than them even though we don't. It all comes down to whether people are accepting or not.

One thing I will say is that we have never ever ever talked down to anyone for eating meat, drinking milk, or anything animal-related, but I've been made fun of many times by people simply for admitting that I don't eat meat when they would ask me, so we have learned to keep quiet about it unless we are truly around people that can accept us for what we are (or aren't, in their opinion sometimes).

Raising chickens converted us to start using eggs. Raising goats will probably convert us to use their milk.
We will never buy that stuff commercially again and in the long run we might be better off because of that.

Now that I've had a moment to look through the comments people are leaving, it seems the topic has been hijacked and turned into a discussion about high protein "paleo" diets or some such nonsense. I'm sorry to see that. It never seems to fail that people go over the top trying to insult those who are different.

I hope my comment helps, coming from a former Vegan and current vegetarian.

No one is insulting anyone about their diet. People can choose any diet they like.

I was arguing that people have always eaten meat. And that is a fact. You are now eating eggs. That could be considered meat since it can grow into a baby chick.

I also argue that it is extremely rare for people to live their entire lives without eating animal products. Sure it can be done.

I am sorry that people are offended when you tell them that you don't eat meat. Surprised is maybe understandable. Offended is ridiculous.

Lactose intolerance is a good reason not to drink milk.